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07-28-2020, 01:06 PM
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#16
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metro
That's news to me, thought the change was going from the base amount of a ticket (x 300) to the actual cost (x 300). Didn't hear anything about aggregate cost of all wagers.
I'll have to look back at my one "signer" this year.
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Actually, I think I'm wrong and you're correct. https://www.rosenbergmartin-tax.com/...i-mutuel-bets/
Quote:
In the case of a wagering transaction with respect to horse races, dog races, or jai alai, all wagers placed in a single parimutuel pool and represented on a single ticket are aggregated and treated as a single wager for purposes of determining the amount of the wager. A ticket in the case of horse races, dog races, or jai alai is a written or electronic record that the payee must present to collect proceeds from a wager or wagers.
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That does change the withholding implications. Though if you're a team making millions, your bankroll is such a small fraction of your returns that it probably doesn't matter if you have to set aside 25% from big scores.
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07-28-2020, 01:24 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBoyle
That does change the withholding implications. Though if you're a team making millions, your bankroll is such a small fraction of your returns that it probably doesn't matter if you have to set aside 25% from big scores.
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They are surely audited every year too so it just becomes a matter of who holds on to the money/withholding until the actual tax day.
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07-28-2020, 01:56 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metro
iirc Oaklawn one of the few major tracks that doesn't give the batch guys access to their pools or accept batch wagering.
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Why is that every time I learn some something new about Oaklawn I like it even more than that I did before? The management there must be very good. Absent some disaster, Oaklawn has a shot to become the "go to" track for serious players.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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07-28-2020, 04:22 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
Why is that every time I learn some something new about Oaklawn I like it even more than that I did before? The management there must be very good. Absent some disaster, Oaklawn has a shot to become the "go to" track for serious players.
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I believe a big part of it is that its not corporately owned.
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07-28-2020, 04:31 PM
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#20
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Is there a science to batch betting or is it just the ability to bet at the last second? How much of an advantage in a P-6 pool can a bettor derive by betting at the last second versus betting with 2 minutes to post?
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I am not talking about P-6 wagers. I am talking about Win betting, where odds are changing 2-3 days after the race is run!
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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07-28-2020, 04:34 PM
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#21
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
Why is that every time I learn some something new about Oaklawn I like it even more than that I did before? The management there must be very good. Absent some disaster, Oaklawn has a shot to become the "go to" track for serious players.
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MY 2 cents - OP is the BEST tack out there - bar NONE.
And it is not even close to second place. I have not wasted my time with Aqu, GP, Tam - any other track during the winter for a few years now.
When they are selling bourbon for the price of root beer, int's a no brainer.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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07-28-2020, 05:24 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
I believe a big part of it is that its not corporately owned.
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I am not sure what you mean by "corporately owned" but it is a subsidiary of Southwestern Enterprises Inc.
I have never gotten into racing at Oaklawn because they lack a turf course. From the looks of it they seem to be doing a great job. Could it be the favorable political environment in Arkansas allowing for both a racetrack and a casino?
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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07-28-2020, 05:48 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBoyle
Actually, I think I'm wrong and you're correct. https://www.rosenbergmartin-tax.com/...i-mutuel-bets/
That does change the withholding implications. Though if you're a team making millions, your bankroll is such a small fraction of your returns that it probably doesn't matter if you have to set aside 25% from big scores.
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My interpretation of the current tax situation is if you're betting $30,000 on one pick 6 sequence, and if it's all in the same account, no matter how many combos or denominations you enter this in as, you won't be subject to withholding or a W-2G unless your payout is coming back over $9 million (300x the investment), so I don't think tax issues are a concern of this group, until year end filing time at least.
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07-28-2020, 11:59 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
I am not sure what you mean by "corporately owned" but it is a subsidiary of Southwestern Enterprises Inc.
I have never gotten into racing at Oaklawn because they lack a turf course. From the looks of it they seem to be doing a great job. Could it be the favorable political environment in Arkansas allowing for both a racetrack and a casino?
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interesting, I thought it was family owned. My bad.
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07-29-2020, 12:11 AM
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#25
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
I am not sure what you mean by "corporately owned" but it is a subsidiary of Southwestern Enterprises Inc.
I have never gotten into racing at Oaklawn because they lack a turf course. From the looks of it they seem to be doing a great job. Could it be the favorable political environment in Arkansas allowing for both a racetrack and a casino?
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Isn't that a company owned and run by the Cella family, the same family that has run Oaklawn for more than a century?
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07-29-2020, 11:30 AM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Isn't that a company owned and run by the Cella family, the same family that has run Oaklawn for more than a century?
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Yes, it's all Cella.
The only thing about Oaklawn under Cella family ownership that gives me any concern is the connection with CDI - since TwinSpires is the backend of Oaklawn's ADW. I would love to be able to make a gift to the Cellas of a 6-paneled photo for their office (Hollywood before and after, Calder before and after, and Arlington "before" and for "after" a photo of the CHRB meeting where CDI affirmed that they weren't going to pursue a casino license) - so that it would constantly remind them how much CDI loves racing, and how beneficial it is to have publicly traded companies owning racetracks.
__________________
Tom in NW Arkansas
Past performances are no guarantee of future results. - Why isn't this disclaimer printed in the Daily Racing Form?
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07-29-2020, 12:37 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
interesting, I thought it was family owned. My bad.
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It can be both. Think Stronach.
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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07-29-2020, 12:46 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Isn't that a company owned and run by the Cella family, the same family that has run Oaklawn for more than a century?
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The Cella financial empire is certainly in a corporate structure but not a public company. My comment was a response to the success of Oaklawn being that it wasn't corporately owned.
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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07-29-2020, 11:53 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
The Cella financial empire is certainly in a corporate structure but not a public company. My comment was a response to the success of Oaklawn being that it wasn't corporately owned.
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Do they or do they not have shareholders to answer to? I did not realize you were being cute with a technical play on terms.
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07-30-2020, 02:00 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
Do they or do they not have shareholders to answer to? I did not realize you were being cute with a technical play on terms.
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Their corporation is very large and I don't know the shareholder breakdown. Typically executives and other employees are given stock options and other ownership opportunities.
I wasn't trying to be cute but certainly don't understand the anti-corporate mentality. Answering to shareholders is not a bad thing in most cases. Businesses of all types make bad decisions. Good corporate management knows that if you run a business properly the stock price will take care of itself and the shareholders will be happy.
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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