Maybe PETA has a point ...

[TonyK@HSH]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I want to be clear here I’m not arguing against better data collection, screening, vet care and long term track maintenance. But I will point out that the economics of the industry are terrible. It’s already in the ICU. It’s being kept alive with casino money.

The things we are discussing to save the sport cost a lot of money.

Where is it going to come from?

IMO that’s been the problem all along.

There are things that can be done to make the sport better, safer, and even try to make it grow. But most owners are losing their shirts, good trainers are dropping out, horseplayers are screaming about the track take, and many more in the industry would spontaneously combust without casino money. You need free cash to invest, we don’t have it, and it’s likely to get worse with costs rising and handle declining in inflation adjusted terms. I may be wrong and I may be the most repetitive guy here, but IMO huge costs have to be taken out of the system. There’s only one way to do that and it’s going to be painful for a lot of people.

Class, this is an excellent post that does a good job of identifying the root cause. It's a very complex issue. Additional testing and vet work is costly and may help avoid some incidents. I understand that the cost of HISA to the business will increase by $20 million next year with the racing industry bearing the bulk of those costs. I fear we will soon reach a point where the industry cannot support the costs.

TonyK

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster

Horses don’t just take bad steps, and unsound horses don’t breakdown. Identify the unsound horses prior to entering the starting gate and this problem largely disappears.

Report: New York Thunder was injected 14 days before fatal injury

[Boomer]

Yeah, they really love their horses don't they. Hah!

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by burnsy

You and Aerocraft are exactly right . This is where society is at . I’m a dinosaur, I said that . I really have no dog in the fight . Present day society will decide the fate of racing horses . But these people that say the horses are not attached or loved by most of their connections are nuts . They never worked back there and it’s ignorant to say that . They see the bad news of greed and cheats but the great majority are the opposite . Many of these people are animal lovers , there’s goats, ponies and cats back there . I’ve seen the owners and trainers faces here when their horses go down . It’s a tragedy , a loss most of them are sick when it happens . People on the backstretch are crying . The media is not an accurate portrayal of what really goes on . Of course, there are crooks …… ban them . There are some of the nicest , hardest working people you will ever meet back there too.
Shawn Clancy was in the show this morning. Jockey , writer and owner . He was honest and upfront . You can tell he cares about these horses . And he admitted this business will “bring you to your knees”. That’s what most of them go thru when this happens. He justifies his living by thinking are these horses better with me or without me ? Face it , who else is going to care for them ? PETA? They’ll be non existent. But once people can’t take the part you guys said about society. It will probably be over . It’s a shift , but some of the things people are saying is total crap. Spend a day or two back there at 5 am. You will see .

I think it's more accurate to say that SOME backstretch people love their horses...while the majority of them see and treat these horses solely as a revenue source. If this weren't the case...then the majority of the horses wouldn't be ending up in slaughterhouses after they outlive their usefulness.

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I think it's more accurate to say that SOME backstretch people love their horses...while the majority of them see and treat these horses solely as a revenue source. If this weren't the case...then the majority of the horses wouldn't be ending up in slaughterhouses after they outlive their usefulness.

Bingo.

[MJC922]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

Report: New York Thunder was injected 14 days before fatal injury

Behind the scenes treatments like these are absolutely off the public's radar and are vital to assessing probabilities. CAW pile on to the 'action' like fleas which is the key enabler of the model to be effective while Joe Public sits in the dark spinning his wheels, bleeding out every year. The scary thing to me is when you have Joe Public (actual old school horseplayers) in favor of maintaining the status quo with drugs but have no visibility to who gets what when. It's true insanity IMO. Just put your money in a pile and light it because chances are you don't know when this horse is right, virtually nobody on the outside knows it.

[Mulerider]

It's too late for New York Thunder, but HISA appears to be preparing to institute the 30-day rule for corticosteroid fetlock injections, as California has in place.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

It's too late for New York Thunder, but HISA appears to be preparing to institute the 30-day rule for corticosteroid fetlock injections, as California has in place.

Better, but this horse should have been retired the injections kept him racing while hurting. Just masking the problems.

[Robert Fischer]

do we even know how common injections are?

14 days clearance usually clears well in advance for between most entries


are there trainers or owners who routinely inject between starts?

New York Thunder is/was one of the 2500 horses I have noted with flaws after I watched his big figure win and Amsterdam stretch run. However, he earned a big figure and won by a big margin in spite of me not liking it, and was then favored in the Jerkens. Even as favorite, I didn't bet against him in the Jerkens (or bet the race whatsoever). I wanted to wait a race or two and toss him as a favorite once I had another negative form model, not at a peak in a 6 horse field.

great scapegoat, but it raises some questions;

1) How routine is this trainer or his owner or his vet or trainers in general with these injections?

2) If he hadn't received the injections, are we to assume that he wouldn't have simply raced anyway as projected favorite in a $500k G2? - I don't know the answer to #1, but pretty sure he would have raced in the G2 Jerkens with or without the injections.

[VeryOldMan]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

It's too late for New York Thunder, but HISA appears to be preparing to institute the 30-day rule for corticosteroid fetlock injections, as California has in place.

Here's the underlying New York Times piece by Joe Drape from which the HRN article is derived:

https://archive.ph/O14VM

It has the information about the joint injections exactly 14 days before New York Thunder raced, the two additional trips to the vet list with soundness issues, and about how other horses have recently died under Delgado's "care".

The horse’s trainer, Jorge Delgado, declined to comment on his handling of the colt, the third of his horses to die since July 27.

It is easy to blame the track conditions - but it looks more like it may be a case of a horse of questionable soundness being numbed up and sent out by an ambitious, unscrupulous trainer. Tapeta (and I'm a believer in having more synthetic tracks) isn't going to fix that. Hopefully some of the HISA reforms will start working.

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by VeryOldMan

Here's the underlying New York Times piece by Joe Drape from which the HRN article is derived:

https://archive.ph/O14VM

It has the information about the joint injections exactly 14 days before New York Thunder raced, the two additional trips to the vet list with soundness issues, and about how other horses have recently died under Delgado's "care".

The horse’s trainer, Jorge Delgado, declined to comment on his handling of the colt, the third of his horses to die since July 27.

It is easy to blame the track conditions - but it looks more like it may be a case of a horse of questionable soundness being numbed up and sent out by an ambitious, unscrupulous trainer. Tapeta (and I'm a believer in having more synthetic tracks) isn't going to fix that. Hopefully some of the HISA reforms will start working.

It's mindboggling how NYRA didn't know this or Woodbine when he ran there or maybe they did and just ignored it

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

do we even know how common injections are?

... I don't know the answer to #1, but pretty sure he would have raced in the G2 Jerkens with or without the injections.

I'm sure he'd have been entered, but I think the issue is that 14 days is not long enough for the pain-relieving effects of the steroid injection to completely wear off, thereby masking soundness issues that might otherwise be detected in a pre-race vet exam. Seems to me 30 days is a step in the right direction.

[$w1fT]

Originally Posted by azeri98

It's mindboggling how NYRA didn't know this or Woodbine when he ran there or maybe they did and just ignored it

NYRA allows bad actors (Rice) to run rough shod over all three of their tracks but you expect them to throw Delgado out?

I don’t think David O’Rourke would know a horse if it kicked him in the balls. Yet he is CEO

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by $w1fT

NYRA allows bad actors (Rice) to run rough shod over all three of their tracks but you expect them to throw Delgado out?

I don’t think David O’Rourke would know a horse if it kicked him in the balls. Yet he is CEO

Not unlike how I allow people with terrible opinions to run rough shod over this forum

Maybe I should invoke a Zero-Tolerance policy?

[$w1fT]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Not unlike how I allow people with terrible opinions to run rough shod over this forum

Maybe I should invoke a Zero-Tolerance policy?

Because the opinion offends guy?