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02-04-2021, 03:09 PM
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#31
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Journeyman
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Nope, he is saying it showed an illusion that made it appear Songbird won.
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Maybe we could get an optical illusion of the win photo, including mirror image so we can see where image was taken.
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02-04-2021, 03:12 PM
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#32
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Donovon
Maybe we could get an optical illusion of the win photo, including mirror image so we can see where image was taken.
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They have so many positions set up depending on who they want to win...which one would you like? They are numbered 1-10.
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02-04-2021, 03:43 PM
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#33
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Journeyman
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 60
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The one that shows the actual winner, in this case Songbird. Number 1 in your program and your heart.
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02-04-2021, 07:51 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castaway01
See, this is where I think people just see what they want to see. Batista on the 6 is whipping in deep stretch less than 50 yards from the wire, and he's moving his hands just as much as Gallardo on the 5. He certainly doesn't stop riding.
But then the other part about Gallardo's 2000th...so in your mind they were fixing the race for Gallardo, and the plan was not to let Gallardo clearly win, but to have another rider urge his horse hard to get past Gallardo's near the wire, but then let Gallardo come back in what would have to be perfectly timed execution for the win? Does that make sense to you?
With that said, the camera went right to the 5 after the wire, so obviously someone there thought the 5 won it. Grunder was confused but in this case I don't blame him because to the naked eye it looked like the 6 or a dead heat.
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I had no money on the race so could have cared less but the fact is Batista only had his left hand on the reins as he approached the wire and after he passed...he did some half ass whipping with his right when he should have been pumping forward with both hands...he had all the momentum and stopped riding...conspiracy or stupidity I have no idea...
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02-04-2021, 09:41 PM
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#35
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunDustyRun
I had no money on the race so could have cared less but the fact is Batista only had his left hand on the reins as he approached the wire and after he passed...he did some half ass whipping with his right when he should have been pumping forward with both hands...he had all the momentum and stopped riding...conspiracy or stupidity I have no idea...
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I mean really I can't buy conspiracy here and I love a good one. But Gallardo is going to win tons of races at the meet, nobody is tanking one to give him 2000.
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02-05-2021, 03:18 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,614
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The only thing I'm sure about with this photo is that I've putting off going to the eye doctor for new glasses for a year because I was afraid of catching Covid and now all I can see is that there were 2 horses and it was close.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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02-05-2021, 03:22 PM
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#37
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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You are seeing the PAN view and that is NOT the photofinish camera view
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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02-05-2021, 03:25 PM
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#38
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Downloaded the replay and watched frame by frame, hard to see any point where the 5 looks to be in front even considering the angle. But the photo doesn't lie I guess, anyone see it?
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PAN view that the crowd is privy to is NOT the Photofinish camera
We used to get irate trainers coming up to the roof DEMADNING the stewards change the outcome until this simple fact was explained to them. ALSO the mirror at Woodbine (the TRUE finish line) is about 8 inches PAST the winning post so a lot of confusion there as well.
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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02-05-2021, 03:28 PM
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#39
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rastajenk
I might have voted for Dead Heat if I had been in the booth.
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The determination of winner is often made at magnifications 20 times what is presented....We had to stop when the image began to pixilate as smooth surfaces are lost.
The STEWARDS instructed me at what MAGNIFICATION I was to show it often so as to not confuse the crowd
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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02-05-2021, 03:30 PM
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#40
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Donovon
You still haven’t produced a mirror image.....anyone who watched the replay can see Songbird won the bob.
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DIRECT image (if the numbers are no obscured) is ALWAYS the first one judged
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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02-05-2021, 03:48 PM
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#41
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zilzal
PAN view that the crowd is privy to is NOT the Photofinish camera
We used to get irate trainers coming up to the roof DEMADNING the stewards change the outcome until this simple fact was explained to them. ALSO the mirror at Woodbine (the TRUE finish line) is about 8 inches PAST the winning post so a lot of confusion there as well.
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Surely you realize I know this, right? I've mentioned the angles are different many times. I have a lot of faith in the photo system. The times I've seen it have issues has always been a human error one.
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02-05-2021, 03:49 PM
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#42
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zilzal
The determination of winner is often made at magnifications 20 times what is presented....We had to stop when the image began to pixilate as smooth surfaces are lost.
The STEWARDS instructed me at what MAGNIFICATION I was to show it often so as to not confuse the crowd
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This is a good point, the photos posted on web sites are not of the same quality of the ones being used to make the calls. They get compressed on the web.
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02-06-2021, 02:57 PM
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#43
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
They have so many positions set up depending on who they want to win...which one would you like? They are numbered 1-10.
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Clueless about the Finish Lynx camera system
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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02-06-2021, 02:58 PM
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#44
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Surely you realize I know this, right? I've mentioned the angles are different many times. I have a lot of faith in the photo system. The times I've seen it have issues has always been a human error one.
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I have NEVER had a situation when I thought that the camera was wrong
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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02-06-2021, 03:01 PM
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#45
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Now on the OLD 35 mm negative days, you could manipulate close finishes by using at thicker wire (that was the way the finish line was used over the wet mounts)..
Stewards told me of that old trick and they used to call these wet mount photos "splash downs," since they were a floor below the viewer and it often was still dripping when they looked it over.
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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