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05-02-2014, 01:44 PM
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#196
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goren
Maybe if the racing actually showed some signs of someday showing a profit, it would invest more in it. Remember the reason tracks have slots is that the tracks were losing money and were going to close. Anybody that thought a casino was going keep sinking money into racing for ever has recently visited Denver. Racing (the horsemen)may or may not win this battle in the LA legislature, but it won't keep winning them forever. It is up to racing to clean up its own house. That means the horsemen because casino run race tracks aren't going to it. That means using some of there slot fueled purse money to promote the game. It is their livelihood that is one the line. I am not holding my breathe.
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Yea whats interesting now though you have people who are in the sport basically saying there is no way that it can be fixed and want this permanent welfare to be able to pay the bills.
Thing is there are no votes to be bought to keep the casino money in place for racing, that welfare is going to go away.
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05-02-2014, 09:34 PM
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#197
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,569
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Big crowd, drop in handle
__________________
Want to know what's wrong with this country?
Here it is, in a nutshell: Millions of people are
pinning their hopes on a man who has every
chance of returning to the WH, assuming that
he can manage to stay out of prison. Think about it.
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05-02-2014, 10:03 PM
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#198
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intus habes, quem poscis
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 9,776
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Down from last year but second highest all time....
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05-02-2014, 11:19 PM
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#199
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 660
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Given that they raised the takeout rates by over 9% for win and over 15% for exotics a drop in turnover of 5.7% would still have CD in front on the deal, provided that the level of discount betting by rebate players this year is the same as last year
If the level of betting by rebate players has changed from last year then obviously the equation changes but we don't know this info
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05-04-2014, 02:29 AM
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#200
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 25
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It's kind of strange that New York is known as one of the most mismanaged high income tax rate states in the nation, along with California. However, their takeout rates on win mutuels are among the lowest.
Unfortunately, the bettors are more sophisticated in New York, so the mutuels are lower anyway.
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05-04-2014, 02:35 AM
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#201
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TraderX
It's kind of strange that New York is known as one of the most mismanaged high income tax rate states in the nation, along with California. However, their takeout rates on win mutuels are among the lowest.
Unfortunately, the bettors are more sophisticated in New York, so the mutuels are lower anyway.
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Why are the bettors more sophisticated in NY? Is there some data that proves this is true? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but why do you think this is true?
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05-04-2014, 03:26 AM
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#202
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Why are the bettors more sophisticated in NY? Is there some data that proves this is true? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but why do you think this is true?
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This "NYers are more sophisticated" adage was strictly a pre-simulcasting phenomenon. In the full-card simulcasting era, everyone bets everywhere...so this saying no longer applies, IMO.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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05-04-2014, 05:05 AM
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#203
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 25
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Professionals are practically forced to bet large circuits by default. Professionals ARE more sophisticated. It is not rocket science, never heard anyone disagree with this before now. This does effect mutuel prices.
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05-04-2014, 05:30 AM
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#204
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Out-of-town Jasper
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit@AR
Given that they raised the takeout rates by over 9% for win and over 15% for exotics a drop in turnover of 5.7% would still have CD in front on the deal, provided that the level of discount betting by rebate players this year is the same as last year
If the level of betting by rebate players has changed from last year then obviously the equation changes but we don't know this info
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But Churchill only gets that 9% and 15% of the bets placed through them. What they get from the rest of the country is whatever they were able increase their signal fees to. How many rebate players bet through Churchill?
__________________
“If you want to outwit the devil, it is extremely important that you don't give him advanced notice."
~Alan Watts
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05-04-2014, 07:26 AM
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#205
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 660
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therussmeister
turnover figures or handle figures are a poor guide because we don't know how many bets have been sold at full takeout and how big the rebates are on any rebate bets
Anyways for what the figures are worth (ie not much), Kentucky Derby handle down 0.80% but the whole day handle was up 1.4% on last year
http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-der...own-08-percent
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05-05-2014, 01:02 PM
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#206
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Athens - Greece
Posts: 326
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Just heard this on Greek tv, during the derby replay they showed.
Shame - can find immitators - should be resisted.
What I have done under similar circumstances in the past is to cut my wagering by a half, knowing that I can't stop it althogether and stuck to it.
The public are -unfortunately- clowns and this is why the companies do it (both those who raise takeouts and those who start business with exorbitant takeouts).
Some years ago we had a strike, for the same reason (increase in takeout percentages). But the stike was organized by the betting shops themselves, who thought it was too much indeed and it could drive customers away.
All the shops remained closed on race day but the two company franchise shops stayed open so I went there to see what happens.
The place was full and the idiots spilled into the street !
I approached with caution, thinking those people might be company people and if I said something wrong they might become angry. But it turned out those were local characters I more or less knew from previous encounters.
So I started chatting and as it turned out they did not even know what was going on ! Those trade unionists striked for some reason they were saying, so we had to come here !
In the end the betting company settled for half the increase they had announced, but that did not bring them any happiness.
You know the score in GR ?
The score is that in 2007 we had 2.5 million to 3.0 million pool size on a day after day basis. Now it is 240 thousand twice a week - as one race day had to be scrapped off. The takeout of 2007 is the total now !
True that the economic crisis and the euro crisis accounts for much of it but the other types of betting companies (soccer - lottery) do not have the same sort of problem. They are down by 20%, not 90% !
The following things have been proven:
- the "theory of idiots" is true just like the race course economic supremos believe
- the punters are drained, new ones do not arrive and the system collapses
You can fool the people, you cannot fool the euros (dollars, rupees) in their pockets.
Last edited by cosmicway; 05-05-2014 at 01:05 PM.
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05-05-2014, 05:01 PM
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#207
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,230
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Now that the Derby is over, I'm done with CD until they rescind higher take out rates on my wins.
Had some good days betting that track.
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05-05-2014, 05:09 PM
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#208
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Athens - Greece
Posts: 326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGalt1
Now that the Derby is over, I'm done with CD until they rescind higher take out rates on my wins.
Had some good days betting that track.
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What's their justification for it ?
Some authorities are horrible.
They write in annual reports:
we succeded in lowering payouts
and on another occasion:
we succeded in making shops pay for their terminal machine
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05-09-2014, 12:19 AM
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#209
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 930
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Churchill handle down 43% Thur. of this year vs Thur. of last year.
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05-09-2014, 05:59 AM
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#210
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyW
Churchill handle down 43% Thur. of this year vs Thur. of last year.
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Churchill and Arlington were not available yesterday here in NJ via TVG; perhaps there are some other issues out there as well. I sent an email to TVG but did not get a response but it was around 4:45pm
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