Did Restoring Hope help Justify tactically in the Belmont...?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Repole is great for the game in many ways, but he's off base here.

Justify has high quality sprint speed. Noble Indy couldn't get to him even if he went all out. He's not fast enough. Also, if he was supposed to be on the lead as a semi rabbit, why did they take the blinkers off?

Second, from what I understand Winstar owns a piece of both Noble Indy and Justify. So what is Winstar thinking right now given Repole seems to be saying he wanted to sacrifice Noble Indy to beat their star. That would be the first time in history someone ran a rabbit against themselves (for the Triple Crown no less).

Not really. Life's Hope cooked Affirmed in the 1978 JCGC.

[Andy Asaro]

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Last edited by Andy Asaro; 06-11-2018 at 10:35 AM.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Not really. Life's Hope cooked Affirmed in the 1978 JCGC.

Life's Hope was entered to be a rabbit but Affirmed's saddle slipped which was probably the reason Cauthen lost some control and was too close. Plus, I think it was more Seattle Slew that cooked anyone that tried to tun with him. :-)

[GMB@BP]

So do I have this straight:

Some people are upset that an uncoupled entry from the same barn had a horse ridden aggressively to make sure that another horse from an uncoupled entry could not work in tandem with their stablemate to try and make sure that the best horse didn’t get a fair shake in the race?

Ok, only In horse racing. This sport man.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

So do I have this straight:

Some people are upset that an uncoupled entry from the same barn had a horse ridden aggressively to make sure that another horse from an uncoupled entry could not work in tandem with their stablemate to try and make sure that the best horse didn’t get a fair shake in the race?

Ok, only In horse racing. This sport man.

Most top Jocks would have grabbed hold after the poor break and not sent to get him rank. Geroux's arms were pumping pretty hard to rush him up. He's never been rank in any of his other races.

[classhandicapper]

I don't think Restoring Hope was in the race to actually impede other runners.

It was clear and laughably obvious that Geroux was told under no circumstances can he actually pressure Justify. It is the reason he went 7 wide on the first turn as he was a bit anxious. Going wide guaranteed he wouldn't go "with" Justify and quicken the pace. By that time, he had already done his job.

I agree.

IMO, there's a huge difference between telling a rider not to pressure your other horse and telling him to run interference. There was no way Restoring Hope was going to pressure Justify assuming he even had the speed to do so without going all out.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I agree.

IMO, there's a huge difference between telling a rider not to pressure your other horse and telling him to run interference. There was no way Restoring Hope was going to pressure Justify assuming he even had the speed to do so without going all out.

Do you remember the hot mic moment after the Pacific Classic where Baffert was coaching Martin Garcia what to say after the Bayern incident? Most people who know know Baffert is no angel when he's not in front of a camera.

[Reggae]

Originally Posted by metro

Bravazo had a perfect trip. If Saez had wanted that two wide, lapped on, trip he could have gotten position for it within the 1st quarter mile, instead he relinquished it to Geroux/Restoring Hope and he dropped Bravazo into a perfect spot right behind the leader. Just came up empty when called upon midway through the final turn.

I'm sorry, but you clearly don't watch much tape on Bravazo. This was the only race where he was positioned "right behind the leader". It's not his style and has never been.



He had a perfect trip for about the first 1/6th of a mile when he was running on the outside of Justify before Restoring Hope darted up and angled in front of Bravazo putting him in what you wrongly think is a sweet spot for Bravazo "right behind the leader".



To add to that Saez didn't relinquish the second position. It was taken from him by Geroux who had no interest in the success of his horse and no interest of running a competitive pace with competitive positioning. Geroux rode with clear intent.



The only perfect trip Bravazo had was for Baffert, and that's because of Restoring Hope.

[Not4Love]

Rigged

[jay68802]

In the end what we have is two trainers, both trying to use one of their horses to set up another of their horses. Besides how this looks to the public, in the end the people who get the short end of the stick are the people who bet Noble Indy and Restoring Hope. Not because of the talent of the horse, but because the horse was never going to get a chance to win the race.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Most top Jocks would have grabbed hold after the poor break and not sent to get him rank. Geroux's arms were pumping pretty hard to rush him up. He's never been rank in any of his other races.

Thats in issue for Geroux, not Justify/Smith/Baffert.

Do people want the result changed?

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by jay68802

In the end what we have is two trainers, both trying to use one of their horses to set up another of their horses. Besides how this looks to the public, in the end the people who get the short end of the stick are the people who bet Noble Indy and Restoring Hope. Not because of the talent of the horse, but because the horse was never going to get a chance to win the race.

I used Justify, Gronkowski, Vinno Rosso, and Noble Indy. My thinking was that if Noble Indy broke sharp and Justify a step slow there was a possibility that Noble Indy could freak on the lead and he was a huge price. If he were 10-1 or less he would have been an auto toss for me.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by jay68802

In the end what we have is two trainers, both trying to use one of their horses to set up another of their horses. Besides how this looks to the public, in the end the people who get the short end of the stick are the people who bet Noble Indy and Restoring Hope. Not because of the talent of the horse, but because the horse was never going to get a chance to win the race.

That is a separate, and I agree, issue that should be addressed, but never will be due to the money it would cost.

Are people saying that the best horse didnt win the race?

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Thats in issue for Geroux, not Justify/Smith/Baffert.

Do people want the result changed?

Nobody I know wants the result change or even think there's any possibility of that. Baffert is very proactive when it comes to Jockeys riding for him AND when it comes to Jockeys who want to ride for him more often. Do you think Geroux wants to ride for Baffert more often? Of course he does.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

No, really it was a 3 horse entry Justify, Restoring Hope, and Noble Indy share either same owner OR same trainer...Repole has an owning interest in both Vino Rosso and Noble Indy, so really the 4 horses should be coupled to protect the public...otherwise, there is at least the potential for conflicts of interest...

I doubt that WinStar Farms would have liked for Noble Indy to seriously challenge and press their champion on the front end...so Javy was probably wise and a bit shrewd for “calling an audible” and not following “the plan” apparently devised by the owners to soften Justify up for Vino Rosso...

But it seems rather clear to me, at least, that a “Wall Strategy” was put into use by Team Baffert...and as Sammy the Sage pointed out, we have seen this tactic before, and not only by Baffert, but also by others with uncoupled entries in play. But by Javy not pressing more, or not being able to press more due to Restoring Hope’s behavior, this just extended the Baffert Wall even further out, probably unintentionally, and this effect totally worked in Justify’s favor...

The Owners of Restoring Hope said they were “livid” regarding Florent’s ride and he appeared, from my point of view, to be tugging on the right rein prior to going wide into the first turn, after breaking slowly and rushed forward, only to be rank...what was Florent thinking...? That his best chance for a placing was to shadow “the Superhorse” as close as he could and for as long as he could to get the best possible placing for his horse and the bettors...?

I doubt it...seems much more likely that Restoring Hope was intended for the Wing Man role early on...and that the Barbers have good cause to be “livid” with the ride...they should have known from the beginning that Justify would be all in to be forward Loy placed and that Restoring Hope’s best chance for a placing would be from somewhat off the pace, after all, he had demonstrated the ability to rate off his maiden try early on at Los Alamitos...

So you are definitely saying, there is no chance that the horse got rank when Geroux sent him up to be near the pace and he is a liar when making that statement?