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Old 11-15-2012, 07:28 PM   #1
tbwinner
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Goodbye Twinkies? +Quote on "Entitlement Society"

Now, I'm not an expert in labor/management relations, but it seems the actions of 6,000 could affect 18,000 employees tomorrow. The Union of 6,000 Hostess employees refuses to take the 8% pay cut in order to remain in operations during Ch 11 reorganization and could force Hostess to go into liquidation, thereby cutting all 18k jobs.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,6249411.story

The last sentence/quote speaks mountains about the entitlement society that extended unemployment has created:
"But if I have to take the cuts they're talking about I can get more from unemployment."
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:36 PM   #2
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Oh shit, I love twinkies and those orange icing cream filled cupcakes.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:21 PM   #3
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Someone will buy the rights, like Hostess did Dolly Madison, and they'll all be working for less. They get what they ask for.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:27 PM   #4
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"But if I have to take the cuts they're talking about I can get more from unemployment."
And there you have the whole story.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:07 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
And there you have the whole story.
GD leeches...every one of them.
Union boys......they are an insult to this country.

I hope they re-open under a new name off shore - a country that supports labor union doesn't deserve jobs. Losing union jobs is never a bad thing.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:18 PM   #6
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Apparently Hostess is working the system to their benefit, about 1000x more than any of the employees.

CHAPTER 11 REORGANIZATION ??

THREATENING TO LIQUIDATE 18,000 JOBS IF 8% PAY-CUT NOT ACCEPTED??


Hostess is a major FAIL working the system big time, and yet you guys want to focus on some quote some idiot employee said about unemployment benefits?

There are bad union practices out there, but not accepting an 8% pay-cut isn't exactly a dirty union tactic.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:31 PM   #7
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As I think I mentioned as an inevitability in the other Twinkies thread, the Teamsters aren't too excited about having this union cut in on their union.
“The [bakers union] chose a different path, as is their prerogative, to not substantively look for a solution or engage in the process. [Bakers union] members were told there were better solutions than the final [contract] offer, although Judge Drain stated in his decision in bankruptcy court that no such solutions exist.

...

“The [bakers’ union] leaders are putting Teamster members in a horrible position – asking them to support a strike that will put them out of a job when they haven’t even asked all their members to go on strike.”
http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/20...s-strike.html/
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:37 AM   #8
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Union boys......they are an insult to this country.
Tom,

Sorry, I cannot agree with that.

Unions began because of the mistreatment of workers in our society. They serve a purpose. Without them, SOME businesses would abuse their workers horribly.

However, I do agree that SOME unions (and locals) are out of control. They have become the abusers.

My comment was aimed at the fact that anyone who chooses not to work should not get paid. Period. Being "on the dole" should not be by choice. It should be by necessity.


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Old 11-16-2012, 01:21 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
Tom,

Sorry, I cannot agree with that.

Unions began because of the mistreatment of workers in our society. They serve a purpose. Without them, SOME businesses would abuse their workers horribly.

However, I do agree that SOME unions (and locals) are out of control. They have become the abusers.

My comment was aimed at the fact that anyone who chooses not to work should not get paid. Period. Being "on the dole" should not be by choice. It should be by necessity.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz
Did you (or anyone) see the History Channel's 'TheMen Who Built America'? Back at the turn of the century unions were definitely needed. Not now.

http://www.history.com/shows/men-who-built-america

But the interesting part is, we're headed towards a stagnating or even perhaps a deflating economy. The middle class, even the upper middle will be under the gun for years to come. Unions may make a comeback in the years ahead if corp's take advantage of the situation.....as of now, that's NOT the case imo

I highly recommend this 4 or 5 part show. I spent all day Sunday watching this series, totally ignored football. Magnificent series, and the possible parallels of the current economic situation can bring on much of what was experienced 100 years ago - but not what you would think it entails.

One thing I thought was interesting, JP Morgan, Rockefeller, et al put their $$ behind McKinley & won the WH....Much of the same pro-Romney rhetoric was used at the time......after he was assassinated Teddy R was put in power and broke down the Trusts. Politics played a huge part in who was broken up, who wasn't

Highly recommend the series, regardless of political or social beliefs

Last edited by ElKabong; 11-16-2012 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbwinner
Now, I'm not an expert in labor/management relations, but it seems the actions of 6,000 could affect 18,000 employees tomorrow. The Union of 6,000 Hostess employees refuses to take the 8% pay cut in order to remain in operations during Ch 11 reorganization and could force Hostess to go into liquidation, thereby cutting all 18k jobs.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,6249411.story

The last sentence/quote speaks mountains about the entitlement society that extended unemployment has created:
"But if I have to take the cuts they're talking about I can get more from unemployment."
The cut is 32% not 8%. The 8% is just the first of many proposed cuts. Do you understand what a 32% cut means? The story talks about a worker who makes $17 an hour. After a 32% cut that workers annual salary goes from $35,360 a year to $24,044 a year. And that is before taxes are deducted; taxes and Social Security and Medicare. Basically they are reduced to the poverty level.

Hostess is owned by two hedge funds. This is Bain Capital all over again. Instead of modernizing the facilities and investing in new equipment, they stopped funding the pension plan. Instead of paying the employees they diverted money to executive salaries. The company is going under not because of union intransigence. It is going under because the owners want it to go under. This is a classic example of vulture capitalism.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:41 AM   #11
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Did you (or anyone) see the History Channel's 'TheMen Who Built America'? Back at the turn of the century unions were definitely needed. Not now.
Look at all the great accomplishments that were born out that greed and vengence! No damned government or union would have ever gotten done what those titans did. There were two sides to that era. Today, with public union boys on the job, we can't even turn the lights on in Long Island.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:45 AM   #12
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another union success story

looks like they no longer have to worry about those salary and benefit cuts.

Quote:
Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:24am EST
(Reuters) - Hostess Brands Inc, the maker of Twinkies and Wonder Bread, said it will ask a bankruptcy judge for permission to liquidate after failing to obtain wage and benefit cuts from thousands of its bakery workers.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mostpost
The cut is 32% not 8%. The 8% is just the first of many proposed cuts. Do you understand what a 32% cut means? The story talks about a worker who makes $17 an hour. After a 32% cut that workers annual salary goes from $35,360 a year to $24,044 a year. And that is before taxes are deducted; taxes and Social Security and Medicare. Basically they are reduced to the poverty level.

Hostess is owned by two hedge funds. This is Bain Capital all over again. Instead of modernizing the facilities and investing in new equipment, they stopped funding the pension plan. Instead of paying the employees they diverted money to executive salaries. The company is going under not because of union intransigence. It is going under because the owners want it to go under. This is a classic example of vulture capitalism.
Hostess really is a company who's time has come and gone. There was not the bread competition that there is today, and not too many people are willing to fork over $1.39 for Twinkies when most convenience stores have there own bakery now. When market shares dwindle, the company suffers. It has little to do with "modernizing".
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:09 AM   #14
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18k out of a job.

Something I noticed in an article this morning

"Only 1/3 are members of a Union"

I read that the other 2/3'rds refused to cross the picket line

This is going to be a shitty weekend for some
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:21 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by mostpost
The cut is 32% not 8%. The 8% is just the first of many proposed cuts. Do you understand what a 32% cut means? The story talks about a worker who makes $17 an hour. After a 32% cut that workers annual salary goes from $35,360 a year to $24,044 a year. And that is before taxes are deducted; taxes and Social Security and Medicare. Basically they are reduced to the poverty level.

Hostess is owned by two hedge funds. This is Bain Capital all over again. Instead of modernizing the facilities and investing in new equipment, they stopped funding the pension plan. Instead of paying the employees they diverted money to executive salaries. The company is going under not because of union intransigence. It is going under because the owners want it to go under. This is a classic example of vulture capitalism.

Most, I think you're being unfair here. Hostess is not in trouble because the owners want it to go out of business. It is in trouble because it is losing money. I'm not saying that's the union or workers fault, it probably is a combination of management mistakes and the fact that the demand for their unhealthy products is not there anymore. Let's face it, only kids like Twinkies but Twinkies are not healthy and parents nowadays are more careful about what they let their kids eat.

They announced today that they are closing after workers failed to report to work by yesterday's deadline. Also, where did you get your facts about 32%? I read that they were offered an 8% pay cut and they would have to pay 20% of their health insurance. This would put them more on par with many other workers in the private sector with similar jobs.
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