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Old 01-16-2012, 01:58 PM   #1
mishka
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What are the conventions and rules about reporting workouts?

As I play more races, I have noted that workouts seem to be consistently reported. However, there are times when workouts are missing from at least Brisnet PPS. For example, in the case of some shippers, there are no work out reports. I don't imagine that a horse is just shipped to a track, jumps off, and races.

In another case, a horse came after a long layoff only had one workout several weeks before this particular race I was handicapping. I discounted the horse as a result. But the horse won by a decent margin. My first cyncial guess was that the trainer somehow hid the work outs. (Or work outs simply don't matter much???)

My question: are there accepted conventions or rules on the reporting of workouts?
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:06 PM   #2
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as far as i know, horses that have been away for a certain period of time in parx, need to have an accredited gate work in order to run. there might be other tracks that have the same policy.

every track needs a gate card before any horse runs in its first race.

also if the starter has a problem with the way the horse acts he might request the trainer of that horse to break the horse out of the gate before they allow him to run again.
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:08 PM   #3
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also track stewards can request a work if they didn't like something during or after the race if he saw something that he didn't like
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy
as far as i know, horses that have been away for a certain period of time in parx, need to have an accredited gate work in order to run. there might be other tracks that have the same policy.
An example taken from where I run, it is if the horse has been off for 45 days. The horse needs a published (or announced) workout (whether from the gate or not) to race again. There would be little reason to make an experienced horse go back to the gate again just because it has had some time off. (If that is what Parx is doing, I would find that kind of wacky. I wonder how long the horse would have to be off for that.)

Reasons I can think of to need a card from the starter (at the gate):

* First-time starter
* Toggling blinkers on/off
* Acted up in a previous start and got itself on the starter's list

And even in those last two, it doesn't always have to be an actual break from the gate. Often all they will have to do is just stand quietly for a long enough period to satisfy the starter. And even if they want you to break, they certainly aren't going to make you work at that time.

All of this is left up to the discretion of the starter who has the authority to give you the card. Whatever he wants. (Which is why you always want to stay on the good side of those guys- even if you get a questionable call- as if from a referee- and are placed on the starter's list when your 'little angel' horse didn't really act so bad.... or at least not in your opinion.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy
also if the starter has a problem with the way the horse acts he might request the trainer of that horse to break the horse out of the gate before they allow him to run again.
Or just stand. (And then back out.)

All of this sucks the most when the starter at the track where you get put on the list wants you to come back to that very track and do whatever gate schooling is necessary, even though it is a track that you had shipped several hours to for the race. Then, you have to beg and plead over the phone for him to just let you do the gate work for a recognized starter (at a track or training facility) that is closer to your home to avoid the return trip, and allow that to suffice. Having a congenial attitude is better in this case. The tracks are supposed to honor each other's rulings in this instance. If you are on the starter's list at one track, don't count on just never going back there again, and trying to race everywhere else.

And as you said, the stewards can of course pretty much request whatever they want, whenever they want as far as all of this goes. I don't know if I have heard of that one too much, though. It is usually one of those (intelligent, professional, handsome, admirable, non-bribable) starters. Those guys are the best. Next to the stewards who are also the best. And also.... oh, whatever... all officials are just super.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:45 PM   #5
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I think that Ontario and other jurisdictions have it right. For races 5 furlongs or greater a horse needs a published, workout of 3f or greater if it has been off over 30 days.
I really don't think that is asking too much.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishka
My question: are there accepted conventions or rules on the reporting of workouts?
Short answer is yes, but they vary by jurisdiction. Every place I've ever worked has a schedule of what works are required prior to a horse starting. They usually come in the following catagories:

1) First time starters

Always at least two works, with one from the gate. In Ohio it's 3/1.

2) Layoffs

Always at least one work, and sometimes two, depending on how long the layoff is. In Ohio it's one published work for a 60 day layoff, and two for 90 days or more.

3) Blinker Changes

Horse always has to be approved by the Starter for a blinker change. Some States actually require a work. Ohio doesn't require a work IIRC.

The major problem with works not showing comes from shippers, especially those that are stabled at training centers. Most of the time the works aren't reported at the time of entry and are announced locally with the scratches and changes. Not very helpful for simulcast patrons, or if you're not paying attention in the grandstand.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:27 PM   #7
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if a horse is on an extended layoff, often the horses need that gate work just so he can back in the groove. horses that don't pop out of the gate before a race after an extended period of time off tend to break slowly.

to me an extended time off is 2 months, in parx it is 45 days. in a perfect world you run your horse frequently, but it doesn't happen these days.
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:29 PM   #8
mishka
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Thanks everybody for the informative responses.

I had no idea that workouts in a number of cases are mandated by the track. It now makes sense about the horse I mentioned who showed only one workout after a layoff--the workout was required.

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Old 01-17-2012, 12:42 AM   #9
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first time starters are tricky. i've seen a trainer request works withheld from being published prior to the debut effort. the protocol at each circuit will vary.
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:55 AM   #10
v j stauffer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5k-claim
An example taken from where I run, it is if the horse has been off for 45 days. The horse needs a published (or announced) workout (whether from the gate or not) to race again. There would be little reason to make an experienced horse go back to the gate again just because it has had some time off. (If that is what Parx is doing, I would find that kind of wacky. I wonder how long the horse would have to be off for that.)

Reasons I can think of to need a card from the starter (at the gate):

* First-time starter
* Toggling blinkers on/off
* Acted up in a previous start and got itself on the starter's list

And even in those last two, it doesn't always have to be an actual break from the gate. Often all they will have to do is just stand quietly for a long enough period to satisfy the starter. And even if they want you to break, they certainly aren't going to make you work at that time.

All of this is left up to the discretion of the starter who has the authority to give you the card. Whatever he wants. (Which is why you always want to stay on the good side of those guys- even if you get a questionable call- as if from a referee- and are placed on the starter's list when your 'little angel' horse didn't really act so bad.... or at least not in your opinion.)

Or just stand. (And then back out.)

All of this sucks the most when the starter at the track where you get put on the list wants you to come back to that very track and do whatever gate schooling is necessary, even though it is a track that you had shipped several hours to for the race. Then, you have to beg and plead over the phone for him to just let you do the gate work for a recognized starter (at a track or training facility) that is closer to your home to avoid the return trip, and allow that to suffice. Having a congenial attitude is better in this case. The tracks are supposed to honor each other's rulings in this instance. If you are on the starter's list at one track, don't count on just never going back there again, and trying to race everywhere else.

And as you said, the stewards can of course pretty much request whatever they want, whenever they want as far as all of this goes. I don't know if I have heard of that one too much, though. It is usually one of those (intelligent, professional, handsome, admirable, non-bribable) starters. Those guys are the best. Next to the stewards who are also the best. And also.... oh, whatever... all officials are just super.
.
Very sharp post. Also wonderfully PC. Well done.
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Old 01-17-2012, 04:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offtrack
first time starters are tricky. i've seen a trainer request works withheld from being published prior to the debut effort. the protocol at each circuit will vary.
Whether a trainer made this request to the starter or the stewards the protocol on ANY curcuit would be the same. One of three things would happen.

1. The official would do a "spit take" as a result of such a stupid request being made.

2. The trainer would be chased out of the office for the same reason.

3. The trainer would be asked to stay in the office to discuss the amount of his fine.

Actually #3 is an exaggeration. People cannot be fined for being stupid. Hmmm. There's always hope

There is absolutely NO CHANCE of what you described actually happening. Legally.
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:54 AM   #12
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happened one fine morning at a track just north of albany, ny.

clockers were downstairs in the grandstand that morning.

the work was not published.

Last edited by offtrack; 01-17-2012 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:20 AM   #13
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It should be a must to demand at least one 3 furlong workout within 30 days. I believe the main reason you don't see it at tracks that have 45 or 60 days rules is because of soreness issues (a diligent track vet may put the horse the horse on the vet list after the workout, and from a business standpoint, many outfits would at least be able to race for money before being put on the vet list).

To me, a horse that can't handle a 30 day workout is dangerous, not just to themselves and their jockey, but other horses it is racing against.

I don't have stats on horses who breakdown without 30 dayers but I wouldn't be shocked if it was much higher than horses who have missed over a month but have a workout.

And I also think that demanding a 30 day workout protects the Horseplayer a little more too.
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Old 01-17-2012, 01:31 PM   #14
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Workouts are important.
If a horse comes from layoff, say 30 days or more and there are no workout reports. it is like ouija board.
One day I 'm going to make an approximate workout speed-race speed chart for workouts of 4/5 furrlong and higher.
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:19 PM   #15
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Trainers hide workouts all the time. Also some trainers in attempt to get a horse claimed will work another horse and call the clockers it is a different horse working.
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