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Old 09-03-2010, 06:57 PM   #1
andymays
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Thumbs up Steve Crist: California Board Skews Takeout tale

http://www.drf.com/news/california-b...s-takeout-tale

Excerpt:

Raising the takeout always leads to lower handle and unhappy customers and is the last resort for struggling track operators. The increases that the California legislature has approved and that will become effective Dec. 26 once the bill is signed into law by the governor, who supports them, are particularly onerous despite the California Horse Racing Board’s attempt to portray them as reasonable and consistent with the rates in other states.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:13 PM   #2
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Takeout

When I first started betting So. Cal in 1999, the initial attraction to me was the weather, no scratches, no mud, no off the turf, horses with regular workout patterns, etc. But I quickly realized that the lower takeout on exotics, such as the trifecta and Pick 3 was making it much easier to win there than it was in New York. Now they have taken that edge away, what fools.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays
Excerpt:

Raising the takeout always leads to lower handle and unhappy customers and is the last resort for struggling track operators.

"In 1993 (or 94) when NYRA executives Kenny Noe and Steve Crist announced they were going to raise the takeout 3% it became clear to me that if I stayed in NY I probably wouldn't be able to make a living.".....Ernie Dahlman
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
"In 1993 (or 94) when NYRA executives Kenny Noe and Steve Crist announced they were going to raise the takeout 3% it became clear to me that if I stayed in NY I probably wouldn't be able to make a living.".....Ernie Dahlman
I have a feeling he's on the right side of the issue now.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays
I have a feeling he's on the right side of the issue now.
How could a horseplayer, or anybody for that matter, with an IQ above 10 EVER be on the wrong side of this issue?
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:25 PM   #6
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I didn't start betting New York until 1995 but I would be extremely disappointed in Crist if he EVER wanted to raise takeout there. I'm not doubting Pylons' post; just shows how easy one can switch allegiances.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:29 PM   #7
andymays
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Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
How could a horseplayer, or anybody for that matter, with an IQ above 10 EVER be on the wrong side of this issue?
As long as he appears to be joining the fight with this article it's good by me.

In my very limited dealings with him he has always been friendly and honest.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:37 PM   #8
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It was a different world back then, and he was in a different position. Maybe they could afford to lose Ernie's action back then. Who can say now what the optimum price point, or whatever it is Jeff P. calls it, was 17 years ago?
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays
As long as he appears to be joining the fight with this article it's good by me.

In my very limited dealings with him he has always been friendly and honest.
That's fine.

Let's look at the big picture.

The sport is dying.

Horseplayers are almost unanimous that the sport is dying due to high takeout rates.

Industry people would argue that the sport is dying because of low purses (which are caused by no growth due to high takeout) and that the biggest of bettors have left the tracks for rebate shops.

In 1993 when Crist was honcho for NYRA and raised the takeout, the overall sport of racing was considered healthy....it was NYRA, as usual, that was unhealthy. So in an attempt at a money grab, he did what all smart people would do , he raised the takeout.

Let's look at what happened......

Dahlman moved to Vegas, which was the catalyst for the inception of rebating and led to the mass exodus of big bettors from the racetracks all over the country.

Other tracks saw that NYRA raised the takeout and it didn't seem to hurt them or was reported that it didn't hurt them and they in turn made more money so across the nation others raised their takeout too.

NY and other areas that raised their takeout following NYRA's (Crist's) lead, have experienced no growth and are dead in the water (unless they get slot welfare).

When the casino boom started not too long after, racetracks were now hooked on the extra money from the raises and couldn't compete with it's new adversaries for the gambling dollar.

NYRA has a 26% takeout rate on p-3, p-4, tri and super wagers and is being used as a comparison to justify the takeout hike in CA.


So if you wanted to get just a little creative.....you could pretty convincingly argue that NYRA's (Crist's) action back then possibly had a lot to do with the fact that the industry is dying today.

If that's the case, based on what Dahlman said above, do we still need to worship him because he's Steven Crist?

Last edited by InsideThePylons-MW; 09-03-2010 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:11 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
That's fine.

Let's look at the big picture.

The sport is dying.

Horseplayers are almost unanimous that the sport is dying due to high takeout rates.

Industry people would argue that the sport is dying because of low purses (which are caused by no growth due to high takeout) and that the biggest of bettors have left the tracks for rebate shops.

In 1993 when Crist was honcho for NYRA and raised the takeout, the overall sport of racing was considered healthy....it was NYRA, as usual, that was unhealthy. So in an attempt at a money grab, he did what all smart people would do , he raised the takeout.

Let's look at what happened......

Dahlman moved to Vegas, which was the catalyst for the inception of rebating and led to the mass exodus of big bettors from the racetracks all over the country.

Other tracks saw that NYRA raised the takeout and it didn't seem to hurt them or was reported that it didn't hurt them and they in turn made more money so across the nation others raised their takeout too.

NY and other areas that raised their takeout following NYRA's (Crist's) lead, have experienced no growth and are dead in the water (unless they get slot welfare).

When the casino boom started not too long after, racetracks were now hooked on the extra money from the raises and couldn't compete with it's new adversaries for the gambling dollar.

NYRA has a 26% takeout rate on p-3, p-4, tri and super wagers and is being used as a comparison to justify the takeout hike in CA.


So if you wanted to get just a little creative.....you could pretty convincingly argue that NYRA's (Crist's) action back then possibly had a lot to do with the fact that the industry is dying today.

If that's the case, based on what Dahlman said above, do we still need to worship him because he's Steven Crist?
Why is it that you need to throw this crap in your response? Who the eff is worshipping him? I said in my very limited dealings with him he's been friendly and honest. How is that worshipping him?
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays
Why is it that you need to throw this crap in your response? Who the eff is worshipping him? I said in my very limited dealings with him he's been friendly and honest. How is that worshipping him?
Had nothing to do with you and I guess you haven't been around too long or around NY'ers as almost every horseplayer I've ever met from there when his name is brought up talks about.......worshipping Crist.....get it?
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:18 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
Had nothing to do with you and I guess you haven't been around too long or around NY'ers as almost every horseplayer I've ever met from there when his name is brought up talks about.......worshipping Crist.....get it?
I get it. The guy wrote a good article in favor of Horseplayers and I posted it. I'm sure he's made mistakes in judgement in the past. I've made many mistakes. All that matters is what he's writing now for me.
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:28 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by andymays
I get it. The guy wrote a good article in favor of Horseplayers and I posted it. I'm sure he's made mistakes in judgement in the past. I've made many mistakes. All that matters is what he's writing now for me.
Stop taking this so personal.....you are one of the good guys.

I'm just telling the non auto-biographical stuff about Crist.....it has nothing to do with you.

I'd give him credit if he would have said we (NYRA) or I raised the takeout in 1993 or 94 and it was a huge mistake.....but he didn't.....maybe he forgot.
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
Stop taking this so personal.....you are one of the good guys.

I'm just telling the non auto-biographical stuff about Crist.....it has nothing to do with you.

I'd give him credit if he would have said we (NYRA) or I raised the takeout in 1993 and it was a huge mistake.....but he didn't.....maybe he forgot.
Ok.

I misred your intention. My fault.

I got knocked out of the pick 6. That might have something to do with it.
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by andymays
I got knocked out of the pick 6. That might have something to do with it.
poly lover.....
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