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Old 08-26-2010, 04:29 PM   #1
The_Knight_Sky
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10% Takeout experiment : DelPark to lower exactas pricing on-track.

Delaware Ontrack Exacta Payoffs to Increase
By Blood-Horse Staff
Updated: Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:49 PM

Delaware Park will experiment with an ontrack-only pari-mutuel takeout reduction from Sept. 4 through Nov. 6, closing day of the meet.

The “bonus,” as the track calls it, will be for exacta wagers only. The regular takeout rate of 19% will drop to 10% on wagers made at the Stanton, Del., facility. The standard 19% takeout rate will remain in effect for exacta wagers made at other locations.

“As an industry, we need to be creative and find more ways to enhance the ontrack experience,” Delaware Park senior vice president Michael Vild said in a statement. “We are hoping to attract more horseplayers to Delaware Park by offering the ontrack exacta bonus, and at the same time reward and encourage our loyal patrons who continue to wager on Delaware Park.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...fs-to-increase
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:33 PM   #2
andymays
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It's safe to say they will get a lot more action on exactas.

I'm trying to get the California Tracks to have a 10% takeout early pick 4 called the Horseplayers pick 4. It wouldn't be on track only though.

I've talked to a few executives about it and sent out some emails about it. I'm in the process of putting something together to send out tomorrow.

Last edited by andymays; 08-26-2010 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays

It's safe to say they will get a lot more action on exactas.

Andy, I am interested in this experiment as I am a two horse specialist.
Exactas and Rolling Doubles.

It is in DelPark's interest to lower WPS to 10% for the duration of the
entire meet to realize what can be accomplished with better pricing
over the course of a season. That can be done in 2011.

The WPS rates at 10% makes it realistic to utlize Kelly Percentage wagering
again. At the same time, it lowers the bar for the newcomers to the game.
It affords them simple wagers at decent pricing.

Mastery of win wagers ($2 flat bet profits) is a must.
Instead we have dumb marketing ideas like Quadruple Quadfectas
at 44% being bandied about. That will never work over the long haul.

This is a good start by DelPark management.
I will be paying them a visit on track for sure.

This is not a brief 10 day Laurel Park experiment, so I have every reason
to anticipate a spike in the DelPark on-track handle. Next thing on the itinerary is for Delaware Park is to bolster the field sizes every which way in 2011.
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:42 PM   #4
InsideThePylons-MW
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Read the article and not really sure how it works because if they explained it right, it's not a reduction in takeout but a bonus on winners.

If there is $200 winning dollars on a winning combo and $150 of it is bet on track, then winning payouts would not increase by 10%. If it does, then it's much more than 10% in that scenario.
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:49 PM   #5
andymays
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This is the next trend. To have something similar to a "door buster" at a local store. Discount one item to draw some people to your location.

It's works if done the right way. If not done the right way the results are minimal.
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW

Read the article and not really sure how it works because if they explained it right, it's not a reduction in takeout but a bonus on winners.

The early details are sketchy.

I went to the DelPark website but I found myself immersed in gaming pages.

I'm sure there will be more details being divulged in the near future.
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:57 PM   #7
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It is welcomed to see tracks try and get some patrons into the seats. A bonus on tickets, even for a pool, is not unlike offering some other on track promo, but is a bet better because people rebet the cash they get.

I just hope they dont try to say "this takeout decrease did not work" when there is not a surge bet into the ex pools.

The ontrack handle is probably no more than $100k at DEL. Maybe 35% of it in ex pools, that means $35000 will be getting about a 6% rebate. If the 6% rebate is rebet four times, we can expect DEL's ontrack handle to go up by about $8000 for the entire card - and that $8000 can be spent in any pool, and also at any simulcasted track.

Last edited by DeanT; 08-26-2010 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays

It's works if done the right way.
If not done the right way the results are minimal.

Win Place Show pools are begging for a reduction. I will take increased payouts on Exactas and Doubles without hesitation though.

Laurel Park, Ellis Park, Sam Houston have made a decent, albeit half-hearted attempts.

Either the duration of their experiment wasn't long enough during the course of the meet or the one "reduced" pool wasn't enough to overcome the shortcomings in other areas of the overall racing product (i.e. field sizes).

This is a start. Nothing but a good start.
Way better than what the CHRB is proposing.
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Old 08-26-2010, 05:24 PM   #9
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at the same time reward and encourage our loyal patrons who continue to wager on Delaware ParK.

Yes by cramming it up the rear end of your offtrack patron or 80%+ of your business-good job. Happens to be the 80% that are subsidizing the 20% that bother to show up in the first place but good work,

maybe next they can introduce penny bets so it takes 500 live patrons worth of bets to pay a teller's hourly wage.


Creating more inequity in the betting does NOT attract new people to the game with a brain. Think some lawyer or doctor not within 100miles of DEL PARK is going to be interested in betting on something where showing up to the track means better odds?


This is a great thing for the live Delaware patron with a clue,
oh right I forgot that concept has long flown the coop,
and for the guy who has a big enough operation to pay for a runner to live in Christiana the next few months.


For everyone else they get to bet against these people at a disadvantage with a strong chance that this will be nothing more than future evidence that takeout cuts don't work. It is obvious as hell anything short of a dramatic wholesale cut in the entire industry is going to amount to future evidence that cuts don't work.


I hate being the rain everytime, I just don't understand why this stuff is so simply obvious to me an uneducated idiotic, moron but not to the rocket scientists and brain surgeons around.


WHat is the problem? STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES, THIS IS BULLSHIT ACTING LIKE HOBOS WHERE ANY POSSIBLE CRUMB OF SALVATION GARNERS A STANDING OVATION.

Last edited by Foolish Pleasure; 08-26-2010 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 08-26-2010, 07:06 PM   #10
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For the record,

I did my part.


I posted the story on the forums I post on that primarly cater to gamblers most of whom are as afraid of horse racing as cancer.


I pointed out 10% takeout over that many potential outcomes is a nice deal for any gambler.


Sports such as tennis, golf, NASCAR, F1 et al that have outright betting over many potential winners usually trade around a 5% market not including commissions on the exchanges. This is analogous to that in a lot of regards.








Unfortunately I believe if one
wants to make the sport disappear very quickly? Make it so the only way one can get the best prices is by going to each track live.

Last edited by Foolish Pleasure; 08-26-2010 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 08-26-2010, 08:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
Read the article and not really sure how it works because if they explained it right, it's not a reduction in takeout but a bonus on winners.

If there is $200 winning dollars on a winning combo and $150 of it is bet on track, then winning payouts would not increase by 10%. If it does, then it's much more than 10% in that scenario.
This is what net-pool pricing is all about. It allows jurisdictions to use different takeout rates while commingling in the same common pool.

Let's say, for simplicity's sake, that there's $10,000 total in the exacta pool. Let's also say that there's $5,000 in exacta wagers and $200 worth of winning tickets on-track, and another $5,000 in exacta wagers and $200 worth of winning tickets off-site.

The on-site wagers, after deducting the 10% takeout, yield $4,500 in net wagers and $180 worth of net winning tickets. The off-site wagers, after deducting 19% takeout, yield $4,050 in net wagers and $162 in net winning tickets. Total NET winning wagers: $342. Total NET wagers: $8,550.

Price calc: $8,550 / $342 = $25 per NET $1 wagered. The math works out really cleanly, but that's just a coincidence.

Okay, now to convert back to the price you get paid at the window.

Off-site: $25 x (1 - 0.19) x 2 = $40.50.
On-site: $25 x (1 - 0.10) x 2 = $45.00.

The off-site payout is 10% lower than the on-site.

- InTheRiver68
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Old 08-27-2010, 01:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays
It's safe to say they will get a lot more action on exactas.

I'm trying to get the California Tracks to have a 10% takeout early pick 4 called the Horseplayers pick 4. It wouldn't be on track only though.

I've talked to a few executives about it and sent out some emails about it. I'm in the process of putting something together to send out tomorrow.
that's a good idea..
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Old 08-27-2010, 01:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays
This is the next trend. To have something similar to a "door buster" at a local store. Discount one item to draw some people to your location.

It's works if done the right way. If not done the right way the results are minimal.
they would probably get more action in the long run if they completely eliminated exacta's and all forms of exotic wagers in the long run. since we know that will never happen they will probably get a little bump in their ontrack handle. keep in mind that the rebate one gets on deleware park on exacta wagers is larger than the amount of the decrease in takeout. still this is probably a healthy move for the deleware track, and if you ask me, i would cut the takeout all over and not just in deleware. it would be more beneficial to them and eliminate the middleman. they aren't recieving that much anyway when they ship their signal out.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:16 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Foolish Pleasure
Yes by cramming it up the rear end of your offtrack patron or 80%+ of your business-good job. Happens to be the 80% that are subsidizing the 20% that bother to show up in the first place but good work,

maybe next they can introduce penny bets so it takes 500 live patrons worth of bets to pay a teller's hourly wage.


Creating more inequity in the betting does NOT attract new people to the game with a brain. Think some lawyer or doctor not within 100miles of DEL PARK is going to be interested in betting on something where showing up to the track means better odds?


This is a great thing for the live Delaware patron with a clue,
oh right I forgot that concept has long flown the coop,
and for the guy who has a big enough operation to pay for a runner to live in Christiana the next few months.


For everyone else they get to bet against these people at a disadvantage with a strong chance that this will be nothing more than future evidence that takeout cuts don't work. It is obvious as hell anything short of a dramatic wholesale cut in the entire industry is going to amount to future evidence that cuts don't work.


I hate being the rain everytime, I just don't understand why this stuff is so simply obvious to me an uneducated idiotic, moron but not to the rocket scientists and brain surgeons around.


WHat is the problem? STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES, THIS IS BULLSHIT ACTING LIKE HOBOS WHERE ANY POSSIBLE CRUMB OF SALVATION GARNERS A STANDING OVATION.
So someone finally CUTS TAKEOUT by a substantial amount and you're whining and moaning? Unbelievable. So they only did it on track to start---if it works there, don't you think they might say, "Gee, we cut takeout on track and people here bet a lot more on exactas...maybe the same thing would happen if we cut the takeout for everyone?" Someone is actually TRYING for once and showing they have a clue, and it SHOULD be applauded and supported. That's how we get more tracks to do it.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:27 AM   #15
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This bring on track exacta pools close to the deal that many online betters get with rebates. That being said, it is probably too little, too late. But least it shows that some tracks are beginning to think about reducing takeout rates.
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