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Old 08-26-2010, 10:37 AM   #1
Stillriledup
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I asked Stephen Burn why he supports Ca takeout raise.

Stephen was chatting with fans over at the Paulick report, i asked him this question, and he answered.

Mr Burn, you seem like a smart guy, i enjoyed your interview with Todd on TVG the other day. You are supporting a takeout raise in Cal of 2 or 3 percent. As iím sure you are well aware, many studies have been done and to my knowledge, none of the studies say that a 23 percent takeout is the optimal pricing point.

Do you disagree with all the studies that have said the optimal price of a bet is NOT 23 percent? Like i said, youíre a fairly intelligent guy, i canít imagine that you really believe a takeout raise is good for the california racing industry.


Stephen Burn said:

stillriledup, as a horseplayer I would accept that an increased take out of any kind would be unpalatable. However, as that same horseplayer, I want to see a healthy sport that has the chance of a long-term future and people with much more knowledge than me of California racing believe this will help the sport. It is worth noting that other states already have take outs that exceed California. In the UK, there is a healthy Tote industry and some of the most successful bets have a take out of 30%.
To me, we should be looking at how to rebate price sensitive customers so that skilled horseplayers who put a lot of money into pools are given a loyalty bonus or rakeback. I struggle to understand why US racing is so willing to cooperate with offshore rebate shops that suck the life out of the sport. We should be exploring ways of bringing that business back onshore and, at the same time, rewarding regular players with rebates. It should be the operator that stands the price of those rebates and not the sport but they could only do that if working out the right pricing formula all round. Irrespective of what happens to AB2414, I hope that issue will be explored by the industry.


Now, it seems that Ray Paulick locked that thread, so i'll try and respond to this here.

Mr Burn seems to think that the horseplayer is responsible for the health of the industry. I would ask him this. If the long term health of the industry is so important, why not lower the price of the bets to get the fans back into the game? Also, why not ask jockeys and trainers to take a 50 percent pay cut on their commissions and day rates? This way, more owners can afford to stay in the game, they'll get more purse money at the end of the day.

The richest trainers and jockeys have sucked millions out of the game, a large chunk of that money (or, all of it) comes from the horseplayers and the owners. Not only do owners pay a day rate to a trainer win or lose, but they also pay part of their winning purse to those guys too, right?

What am i missing here.

Horseplayers have no voice, this is why tracks can just grab and extra 3 percent here and there and there's nothing the players can do. If someone suggest the trainers and jocks take a pay cut, all hell would break loose.
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Old 08-26-2010, 10:42 AM   #2
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Good job putting him on the spot.

His answer is bullshit. Now I have to believe that Betfair is bullshit too. It is quite obvious that he cut a deal with some of the Racing Executives in California along with Brackpool who is another suspicious character.

They won't get the benefit of the doubt from me from here on out.

Last edited by andymays; 08-26-2010 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 08-26-2010, 10:53 AM   #3
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There is ABSOLUTELY NO proof that increasing the price improves the product. Not in horse racing, prostitution or for anything in between. On the contrary, where horse racing is involved if it were the case, then over the past 20 years the finest product imaginable should have evolved and be on display today for horseplayers. Clearly that hasn't happened; indeed, just the opposite is happening.

If horse owners/trainers are so destitute I suggest they either try something else and get out of the business; or, they get in line with the other welfare recipients.
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Old 08-26-2010, 10:54 AM   #4
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"His answer is bullshit."

Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays
His answer is bullshit.
Spot on.
How can the game become healthy if they drive the customers away?
Give Burn an enema.
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Old 08-26-2010, 10:59 AM   #5
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I find what Burns said to be disingenuous to an enormous degree based on his comments.

He of all people should realize that rebates or lowering takeout isn't about appeasing price sensitive and big players, but giving all players an opportunity to last longer, spend more time betting on horses, and opening the door to the chance that some can win which will create a whole new market of wannabes (this has been the key to Betfair's success).

Andy, I agree, he is full of it. He isn't a stupid guy.

He realizes that the higher the takeout in California, the more likely people will turn off parimutuel and bet on the exchange.

Secondly, he realizes he needs to invent reasons why a takeout increase makes sense so as to support the bill, which will get Betfair in the door.

Now, I'm not saying exchange betting is bad for the industry, in fact, parimutuel wagering has risen wherever Betfair has shown up. But Burns is playing with the media right now.

There is no way he believes that the increase in takeout will add to the health of the racing industry in California. I'm not buying it for a minute.
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Old 08-26-2010, 10:59 AM   #6
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Its probably never happened in the history of US business where a floundering company raised prices and that price raise got them back to a healthy vibrant company. If there is an example out there of something like this, i'd love to hear about it.

Why do you think In and Out Burger has a line wrapped around the corner day and night 7 days a week at every INOB in the state of California and Nevada? Because they sell a great product at a very low price and they make their money off volume. Racing is the anti In and Out Burger.
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:07 AM   #7
andymays
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com
I find what Burns to be disingenuous to an enormous degree based on his comments.

He of all people should realize that rebates or lowering takeout isn't about appeasing price sensitive and big players, but giving all players an opportunity to last longer, spend more time betting on horses, and opening the door to the chance that some can win which will create a whole new market of wannabes (this has been the key to Betfair's success).

Andy, I agree, he is full of it. He isn't a stupid guy.

He realizes that the higher the takeout in California, the more likely people will turn off parimutuel and bet on the exchange.

Secondly, he realizes he needs to invent reasons why a takeout increase makes sense so as to support the bill, which will get Betfair in the door.

Now, I'm not saying exchange betting is bad for the industry, in fact, parimutuel wagering has risen wherever Betfair has shown up. But Burns is playing with the media right now.

There is no way he believes that the increase in takeout will add to the health of the racing industry in California. I'm not buying it for a minute.
This is exactly the kind of twisted deal making that has gone on in California for decades. It's just that lately we are finding out about this stuff.

What pisses me off even more is that no reporter will pin these guys down on this stuff and ask them directly about the side deals. Another reason to be skeptical of industry leadership.
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Its probably never happened in the history of US business where a floundering company raised prices and that price raise got them back to a healthy vibrant company. If there is an example out there of something like this, i'd love to hear about it.

Why do you think In and Out Burger has a line wrapped around the corner day and night 7 days a week at every INOB in the state of California and Nevada? Because they sell a great product at a very low price and they make their money off volume. Racing is the anti In and Out Burger.
Mmmmm....I love In and Out burgers.......

Gotta get one soon....30 minutes away from me...it's been over 6 months

Screw the cardiologist!!!

Oh, and btw...this Betfair guy Burn is full of S H one T
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:10 AM   #9
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Interesting comments from Burns.

Maybe someone could ask the BF rep why one of Betfair big players (racehorse owner too) is asking UKTote to reduce take to around 12%.

Last edited by Charlie D; 08-26-2010 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Its probably never happened in the history of US business where a floundering company raised prices and that price raise got them back to a healthy vibrant company. If there is an example out there of something like this, i'd love to hear about it.

Why do you think In and Out Burger has a line wrapped around the corner day and night 7 days a week at every INOB in the state of California and Nevada? Because they sell a great product at a very low price and they make their money off volume. Racing is the anti In and Out Burger.
ironically In and Out Burger raised their prices on every menu item in April. good timing for your example

http://fastfood.ocregister.com/2010/...-prices/58221/
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:29 AM   #11
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Obviously not smart and obviously a bought and paid for Betfair shill like I posted three times in the other thread.

Anyone who believes exchange betting has not led to a astronimical rise in sports corruption is an idiot,

anyone in an official capacity who believes this is a bought and paid for shill of Betfair.


which one will find is extremely common when it comes to UK gaming authorities.
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:36 AM   #12
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FP

Once again your blame is misplaced, but carry on refusing to see it's the insiders who rip off the other bettors and not the platform being used for the bet placement.

It is quite funny reading your dribble tbh.

Last edited by Charlie D; 08-26-2010 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:37 AM   #13
Stillriledup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jballscalls
ironically In and Out Burger raised their prices on every menu item in April. good timing for your example

http://fastfood.ocregister.com/2010/...-prices/58221/
Thanks!
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jballscalls
ironically In and Out Burger raised their prices on every menu item in April. good timing for your example

http://fastfood.ocregister.com/2010/...-prices/58221/
Companies can raise prices when demand increases and get away with it. That is how business is supposed to work.

It works with real estate and on Ebay real well too.

If California racing had an item on Ebay that wasn't being bid on, they would raise the price because it will help them have a healthy industry.
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:43 AM   #15
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He of all people should realize that rebates or lowering takeout isn't about appeasing price sensitive and big players, but giving all players an opportunity to last longer, spend more time betting on horses, and opening the door to the chance that some can win which will create a whole new market of wannabes (this has been the key to Betfair's success).





Need new losers betting, not the same losers milking their stacks.


and anything short of a dramatic cut in takeout like I have posted 1000times now,
offer zero takeout betting for all bets made at >10mins to post,

will not accomplish this goal-


everything else is just moving the shells around.




and the fantastical garbage repeatedly being posting about Betfair is enough already.


HAs Betfair taken out or put in more to every sport they offer betting on?
Betfair matches $1,000,000 they earn $5000, they pay the track $500.
Those are the real numbers.

or they make ten times what they pay towards purses.

Do any US tracks make ten times what they pay towards purses?



Tote handle up everywhere? Really, it not up in the US, it not up in France, it not up in Australia, mnot up in South Africa,
in fact it is not up anywhere except maybe in the UK and there it had nowhere to go but up.


unless one uses the same specious methods and means like the people trying to say handle is up everywhere that installed synthetic track.

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