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Old 03-11-2020, 01:04 PM   #1
Track Phantom
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More to be indicted?

What is the possibility that more trainers will be indicted related to the arrests on Monday?

I read that California has blood samples from horses dating back two years. Since they now know what to test for, couldn't they feasibly find evidence of these drugs in those samples? In addition, assuming this drug is in those samples, isn't it likely that these distributors and vets will incriminate other trainers as part of plea deals they'll make for a reduced sentence, and by extension add more validity to the cases?

One thing we know for absolute certainty: The horse racing industry at large has zero interest in "catching" cheaters. At least they didn't have any interest in this for the last twenty or so years. My guess is those in this indictment will be the end of it until the next time the FBI gets involved.
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Old 03-11-2020, 01:11 PM   #2
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usually in this type of a case the feds will go after added wrong doers as long as they know they can put their hands on substantial amounts of money that they can confiscate from the culprits. but they can still have their eyes on others to make a better case with.

keep in mind that this investigation has been going on for over a year and the length of the grand jury is only 18 months and we don't know whether that grand jury has been dismissed or is still live.
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Old 03-11-2020, 01:13 PM   #3
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right now it's only the FBI's random enforcement.

Maybe the FBI will look and see there are other obvious cases that are one or two degrees of separation in relation to the 27? Or maybe they'll stop here?

Or maybe they'll put heat on everyone and anyone who doesn't pay a 'protection' fee by paying for a new federal oversight? Who knows...


They should give them a limit of one owner that they can chemically enhance horses for, and then not be allowed to juice any other horses, except Stakes horses.
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Old 03-11-2020, 01:35 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Robert Fischer View Post
right now it's only the FBI's random enforcement.

Maybe the FBI will look and see there are other obvious cases that are one or two degrees of separation in relation to the 27? Or maybe they'll stop here?

Or maybe they'll put heat on everyone and anyone who doesn't pay a 'protection' fee by paying for a new federal oversight? Who knows...


They should give them a limit of one owner that they can chemically enhance horses for, and then not be allowed to juice any other horses, except Stakes horses.
Are you serious with this statement?
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Old 03-11-2020, 02:23 PM   #5
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Are you serious with this statement?
No. Yes. I don't know.

No, but that was pretty close to the common accepted practice.

There was one guy who blatantly juiced every animal, but that guy had almost all well-bred stakes horses. Most of the other known juicers, who openly advertised, were mostly shunned(to rule their own B-level or lower meets). The top trainers were more often class-acts that only juiced the star horses, and you didn't get as many betting coups to make it a comprehensive case of race-fixing.

It's gotten to the point now, where very legitimate, class-act owners have mostly gone to the juice men. And they do every animal in the owners barn at every class of race. A quarter of the time they also bet heavily.

The ownership-veterinarian-trainer game has jumped the shark, and all the game can do is promote the action.

We have fostered anarchy out there for a long time, and it's brazen.

We do the same thing with 'herding' and other practices.

I have 30 trainers that I watch for when they have a '6-1'(or any mid-range odds) on a horse that doesn't have the paper form. If they don't do the betting coup thing, I can sometimes hit a nice one on their leftovers.

It's part of the game. I don't know how to deal with it, but either does any of racing's governing body. It's part of common standard accepted business practices at this point. A gentleman's agreement. If the top owners are OK w/ jumping the shark, then that's the game we get.
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Old 03-11-2020, 02:48 PM   #6
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I was thinking about this earlier. It would seem like the chemists involved would have had more clients and I'd think they seized records from them since the arrests.
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Old 03-11-2020, 02:58 PM   #7
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I was thinking about this earlier. It would seem like the chemists involved would have had more clients and I'd think they seized records from them since the arrests.
Did you read the Jockey Club statement from 2016? The investigation they did revealed that there was indications of multiple doping networks in horse racing.
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Old 03-11-2020, 03:01 PM   #8
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right now it's only the FBI's random enforcement.
Was it completely random? How did they get a wiretap? What was the probable cause? Someone who already flipped?
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Old 03-11-2020, 03:10 PM   #9
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Did you read the Jockey Club statement from 2016? The investigation they did revealed that there was indications of multiple doping networks in horse racing.
That was a pretty vague statement and seemed like they were trying to get credit for doing nothing.
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Old 03-11-2020, 03:14 PM   #10
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Was it completely random? How did they get a wiretap? What was the probable cause? Someone who already flipped?
I don't know.

Could guess, but I don't know.

'Random' in the sense that cheating is an accepted practice, and out of the many, and seemingly without warning (the guy just won a $20M race and the horse was praised), they nailed two of them.
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Old 03-11-2020, 03:21 PM   #11
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That was a pretty vague statement and seemed like they were trying to get credit for doing nothing.
Might have been vague, especially at that time. But, right now, considering how many states were mentioned in the indictments, you have to think it is true.
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Old 03-11-2020, 03:42 PM   #12
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FROM DRF
A person who has experience in federal prosecutions of the nature outlined in the indictments who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to his position in the racing industry said that the information contained in the indictments – and the fact that many of the individuals on the other side of intercepted phone calls were unnamed – indicated that the investigation is still ongoing. According to the person, the federal government is likely to spend the next two weeks attempting to reach plea bargains with some individuals to provide testimony against others, including those not already indicted.
“This is just the starting point,” the person said. “This is going to get ugly. It really will.”
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Old 03-11-2020, 04:00 PM   #13
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That was a pretty vague statement and seemed like they were trying to get credit for doing nothing.

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Old 03-11-2020, 04:09 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Robert Fischer View Post
No. Yes. I don't know.

No, but that was pretty close to the common accepted practice.

There was one guy who blatantly juiced every animal, but that guy had almost all well-bred stakes horses. Most of the other known juicers, who openly advertised, were mostly shunned(to rule their own B-level or lower meets). The top trainers were more often class-acts that only juiced the star horses, and you didn't get as many betting coups to make it a comprehensive case of race-fixing.

It's gotten to the point now, where very legitimate, class-act owners have mostly gone to the juice men. And they do every animal in the owners barn at every class of race. A quarter of the time they also bet heavily.

The ownership-veterinarian-trainer game has jumped the shark, and all the game can do is promote the action.

We have fostered anarchy out there for a long time, and it's brazen.

We do the same thing with 'herding' and other practices.

I have 30 trainers that I watch for when they have a '6-1'(or any mid-range odds) on a horse that doesn't have the paper form. If they don't do the betting coup thing, I can sometimes hit a nice one on their leftovers.

It's part of the game. I don't know how to deal with it, but either does any of racing's governing body. It's part of common standard accepted business practices at this point. A gentleman's agreement. If the top owners are OK w/ jumping the shark, then that's the game we get.
I'm so very disheartened to learn of the depth of this issue. My heart aches for the innocent horses...all of those dreadful, fatal breakdowns that should never have happened, but for the devil within. I'm ashamed of what a great portion of our society has become...on many levels.
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Old 03-11-2020, 04:43 PM   #15
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They've confiscated the purchasers list from Medivet and Scott Robinsons websites.

The buyers were from all over the map, not just the eastern seaboard. They will take the necessary steps so that the juicers cant get off on technicalities.

More will be indicted.
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