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Old 05-18-2016, 09:24 AM   #1
Ocala Mike
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Stakes Winner Wins Maiden Race at Belmont

Just when you thought you could rely on the accuracy of past performances:

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...edium=facebook
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:14 AM   #2
Tom
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Amazing.
This game never ceases to amaze me.
We can't time races, we are not sure how far the horses run, and now we are
not even sure if they won or not.

I am assuming we know it was a horse?
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Last edited by Tom; 05-18-2016 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:14 AM   #3
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Thats disappointing to hear as the game continues to see defectors. I actually played the horse based on his NZ sire (St Reims) who won many a mile and a quarter and mile and a half stakes races, and those slow but steady Pletcher works.
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:25 AM   #4
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I figured the horse was a putover, but had no idea it was this bad. Should be massive fines imposed for this.
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Old 05-18-2016, 11:53 AM   #5
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I was playing in a head to head, and the opponent had used the horse. That got me to look closer, and being by a NZ bred, had to think he'd improve moving back to turf. He took quite a bit of $$ in his "lone" (US) start. I lost the head to head matchup, but did end up betting the horse.

I remember thinking there was something odd about him. I had never heard of the stallion, and getting bet below 5-1 on dirt in his previous race and Pletcher trained.

Last edited by Valuist; 05-18-2016 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:36 PM   #6
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This is not unheard of. I know that a few years ago that Texas and Oklahoma had a few "bush tracks" that were not recognized. I once bet a maiden first time starter (according to the form) at LaD after I had heard that he had won several races at bush tracks in OK. He won easily. With these horses that appear to be first time starters you just have to have more info.

A lot of states in the south had these bush tracks before paramutual wagering was legal. I went to one in Texas (before legal betting there) where there was what looked like a couple of thousand people in attendance.
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Old 05-18-2016, 01:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green80
This is not unheard of. I know that a few years ago that Texas and Oklahoma had a few "bush tracks" that were not recognized. I once bet a maiden first time starter (according to the form) at LaD after I had heard that he had won several races at bush tracks in OK. He won easily. With these horses that appear to be first time starters you just have to have more info.

A lot of states in the south had these bush tracks before paramutual wagering was legal. I went to one in Texas (before legal betting there) where there was what looked like a couple of thousand people in attendance.
I think that's apples and oranges. According to the article, the stakes race the horse won in China was worth about $50k USD. Not too many purses like that at the bush tracks.
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Old 05-18-2016, 01:50 PM   #8
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Doesn't matter if he won a race on Mars for a 3 cent purse.

Makes NYRA look like turkeys. Makes the owners look like crooks.

I'll give Pletcher the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

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Old 05-18-2016, 03:00 PM   #9
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Another win for Pletcher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now another reason why I don't play NYRA. Pletchers license should be suspended Until this thing is reviewed. Maybe the FBI should take a look.
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Old 05-18-2016, 05:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltonKelsey
Doesn't matter if he won a race on Mars for a 3 cent purse.

Makes NYRA look like turkeys. Makes the owners look like crooks.

I'll give Pletcher the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
He first raced at Gulfstream, shouldn't that track have caught it first?
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Old 05-18-2016, 05:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltonKelsey
Doesn't matter if he won a race on Mars for a 3 cent purse.

Makes NYRA look like turkeys. Makes the owners look like crooks.

I'll give Pletcher the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
Why give Pletcher a pass? He knew as well as the owners this horse's race record, and he's the one who entered the horse in maiden races.

It's incredible that someone did a story on this without actually asking Pletcher why he entered a winner in a maiden event?
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Old 05-18-2016, 05:53 PM   #12
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Doesn't this have to fall to the Jockey Club, and their policy of only recognising races conducted by the other Chinese Body.

There were articles written about the hors before he raced referencing his wins, it was known that he had started, but a decision/policy exists where those races aren't recognised as official races.

The policy is the issue, not the actions of GP, NYRA or Pletcher.
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Old 05-18-2016, 05:58 PM   #13
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Wouldn't that look worse, for a horse to show one maiden race in its PPs, be entered in some ALW and then win at even higher odds??

Fact is, this is not a TAP problem or a NYRA/GP problem or a TDN problem that the horse ran as a maiden twice when it had won before. The ONLY entity culpable in this is The Jockey Club as it controls the data and regulates which jurisdictions/countries get denoted in North American cataloging and past performances. Period.

Haven't you ever seen the beef at the end of some years where one stallion is over/under credited with purse money affecting his ranking on the Sire Lists? It's because Equibase/Equineline Sire Lists differ from Bloodhorse or TDN in how it calculates the purses from Asian countries including Japan and China.

This is the same situation. Even if the stewards, or Todd and the owners had told everyone and their brother (which they kind of did via the Jan article on the owners) the horse is a multiple winner, there is NO way those Chinese races would have or will show up on ANY North American data produced using Equibase until Jockey Club decides to make that change with its cataloging policy.

You don't like what happened here? Make it know to Jockey Club and Equibase and hold them accountable for fixing data integrity issue. THEY are the ONLY ones with that capability to do so in North America.
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Old 05-18-2016, 06:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamt
Doesn't this have to fall to the Jockey Club, and their policy of only recognising races conducted by the other Chinese Body.
Agreed. The horse met the "metes and bounds" of the maiden condition as set forth. So wrong re the wagering public, but it illustrates where the wagering public stands in the hierarchy.
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Old 05-18-2016, 07:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by VeryOldMan
Agreed. The horse met the "metes and bounds" of the maiden condition as set forth. So wrong re the wagering public, but it illustrates where the wagering public stands in the hierarchy.
He did meet them. However, with the previous TDN story noted in Finley's piece, he, of course, was aware of Mongolian Prince's past performances. Still, think about it, gentlemen, it's CHINA. It's not like he faced better, this, plus, with air quality, the horse is lucky he was able to breathe beyond 4 furlongs. (Had those races been in the pps, I'd have bet him for this reason alone.)

Would Finley have been this determined to imply a rousing coup was pulled off by NYRA, Pletcher, and owners had the horse lost his race on Sunday by a nose? Particularly when, in his last at GP on dirt, Finley was mum when Mongolian Prince was trounced in that maiden outing!

I kinda don't think so. This was an opportunity for:

... Finley, Watchdog, LLC.

Another piece I read indicated only 4 horses from China have raced in the U.S. Maybe this one incident, will cause enough of a ruckus for the Jockey Club to look into their regulations. Meanwhile, my friends, get used to where you are in the pecking order, as bettors, this is not changing. It never will. Choose your battles wisely.
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