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Old 09-03-2010, 05:32 PM   #91
andymays
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http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...emy&id=5527789

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But don't insult me with another tax hike that makes the game even less attractive.
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Old 09-03-2010, 05:44 PM   #92
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I wonder if the industry even realizes, that the player might eventually get tired of losing money, and might start playing the game less often...or even stop altogether.

Last edited by thaskalos; 09-03-2010 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 05:58 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
I wonder if the industry even realizes, that the player might eventually get tired of losing money, and might start playing the game less often...or even stop altogether.

I know most people don't believe this but I know it to be true in a lot of cases.

When you get some of these guys (Racing Executives) in a room and someone mentions Horseplayers the over/under is about 10 seconds before you hear the words "degenerate" and "losers". For some of them it's a class thing. They basically think they're better than everyone else.
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Old 09-03-2010, 06:00 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
I wonder if the industry even realizes, that the player might eventually get tired of losing money, and might start playing the game less often...or even stop altogether.
Our industries tagline is "you can beat a race, but you can't beat the races"

That's like a restaurant having a tagline of "our food sucks and it is expensive"

Instead of attacking that one line - fixing your food and prices, or in racings case, lowering takeout to help people win more - they make the takeout higher, so that more people cant win.

And then they wonder why people are not playing anymore.
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Old 09-03-2010, 06:15 PM   #95
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I'm saying I don't really care -- its up to you. HANA isn't going to convince anyone of anything they don't already believe. Do YOU feel Cali is shitting on YOU? Then stop playing there! I don't care where else you play, if anywhere. Either YOU decide to stop playing Cali, or YOU don't. Multiply that by a thousand or so and you have HANA. Who is this person that is waiting for HANA to issue a press release to tell them how to bet? I haven't met them.

I don't have a direction or a solution, neither does HANA. Either keep getting shit on, or don't. It's your call.



They are my home circuit, the primary tracks I follow, and the tracks I go to. CHRB and TOC control both my on track and off track experience. My life as a horseplayer is directly controlled by them -- and they have ruined it. So I care more about what happens in Cali. They are able to shit more directly right onto my back if I let them.



By all means, HANA should call for it. My point is if you think that call would change anything, you're dreaming. Because that call will reach the ears of individuals. Individuals who are either already fed up and have already stopped playing Cali, or individuals who maybe care, maybe don't care, but will continue playing either way.

People like to punt their own personal responsibility onto HANA. If you play $100K a year into Cali pools, your own personal choice about how to respond has more bang than any HANA press release. HANA doesn't bet any money directly into the pools.

The strongest argument for HANA calling for a boycott isn't that it will do anything, it's merely so HANA (and their members) could garner credit and go "na-na na-na-na if handle goes down drastically. But it's not really HANA's credit, it's all the individual horseplayers out there. By all means HANA, go for the gold, grab any credit you can for your members. I have my doubts there will be much credit to pass around, however, based on what I've seen.
I guess we are on opposite ends of the universe. I think thousands of Players out there are looking to HANA to be more aggressive and "throw a punch". It's about leadership and I think people will be surprised if this is done right and I think it will be. I think membership which is now stangnant will grow by leaps and bounds.

People want to participate in the fight. They need leadership from HANA to get started. If they didn't then things would have changed already.

Last edited by andymays; 09-03-2010 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 09:11 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by andymays
I guess we are on opposite ends of the universe. I think thousands of Players out there are looking to HANA to be more aggressive and "throw a punch". It's about leadership and I think people will be surprised if this is done right and I think it will be. I think membership which is now stangnant will grow by leaps and bounds.

People want to participate in the fight. They need leadership from HANA to get started. If they didn't then things would have changed already.
AM,
If not HANA, then WHO? If not CALIFORNIA then WHERE? If not NOW then WHEN?

It seems as if some HANA leadership wants to do this, but not others, I doubt any of them wants to sacrifice whatever influence in the industry the organization may have achieved so far.

A leader with positive name recognition for horseplayers is needed to get action started and make it SUCCEED. jp is already well-known in a positive sense, and his reputation has been enhanced by his encounters with the CHRB. Currently he seems the most logical choice. Whether he would be willing to lead independently of HANA is something someone should ask, so I am.

To be successful, people like rw and yourself have to also be prominent. Thatís a triumvirate that I could follow with confidence, and Iíd bet a lot of other California residents here could as well.

Anybody ready to second my nominations? Only mindreaders know what people want if they don't ask.

Last edited by Indulto; 09-03-2010 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 09:13 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Indulto
AM,
If not HANA, then WHO? If not CALIFORNIA then WHERE? If not NOW then WHEN?

It seems as if some HANA leadership wants to do this, but not others, I doubt any of them wants to sacrifice whatever influence in the industry the organization may have achieved so far.

A leader with positive name recognition for horseplayers is needed to get action started and make it SUCCEED. jp already well-known in a positive sense, and his reputation has been enhanced by his encounters with the CHRB. Currently he seems the most logical choice. Whether he would be willing to lead independently of HANA is something someone should ask, so I am.

To be successful, people like rw and yourself have to also be prominent. Thatís a triumvirate that I could follow with confidence, and Iíd bet a lot of other California residents here could as well.

Anybody ready to second my nominations? Only mindreaders know what people want if they don't ask.
I'm confident Jeff will lead the way on this one. He will drag the HANA board with him.

Last edited by andymays; 09-03-2010 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 09:20 PM   #98
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I'm confident Jeff will lead the way on this one. He will drag the HANA board with him.
Nobody should be dragged into this. Nagged, maybe.
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Old 09-03-2010, 11:43 PM   #99
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I nominate Indulto to lead the boycott! All in favor post "I".
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:19 AM   #100
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I nominate Indulto to lead the boycott! All in favor post "I".
Your insincerity is showing, as we both know whatís needed is a messiah, not a pariah.

In the interest of partial disclosure, I confess to having nominated sj for co-leader of HANA over two years ago. I assume each of us has his own evaluation of how well that worked out.
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:38 AM   #101
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I nominate Indulto to lead the boycott! All in favor post "I".
I'm pretty sure Indulto will contribute to the fight.

I'm pretty sure Jeff will lead and do a great job of it.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:41 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Indulto
Your insincerity is showing, as we both know whatís needed is a messiah, not a pariah.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I am being sincere. You seem like a person who cares a lot about the game.
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Old 09-04-2010, 02:46 PM   #103
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I'm sorry you feel that way. I am being sincere. You seem like a person who cares a lot about the game.
I'm sorry I feel that way too. You can be a very convincing fellow on this board. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.


I doubt you have any real interest in this or any other potential collective confrontation other than to needle and distract those who are. And thereís nothing wrong with that. I just hope I can avoid your wasting any more of my time.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:39 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Indulto
I'm sorry I feel that way too. You can be a very convincing fellow on this board. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I doubt you have any real interest in this or any other potential collective confrontation other than to needle and distract those who are. And thereís nothing wrong with that. I just hope I can avoid your wasting any more of my time.
In an effort to try to help you save your time this is the only reply I'll make to your post.


Now, let's get back on topic...
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:06 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by andymays
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...emy&id=5527789

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But don't insult me with another tax hike that makes the game even less attractive.
Outstanding article. Required reading for any horseplayer that gives a damn. And, required reading for all horse owners who feel that they are entitled to be supported by the game.
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