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Old 09-02-2010, 09:11 PM   #76
andymays
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Originally Posted by DeanT
Ok, one more time dude. This is California. This is what we've been watching.

Recap:

They call for a takeout hike at Los Al. They tell horseplayers if handle goes down they can change it back.

Jeff spends 300 hours on it on behalf of horseplayers, showing handle went down.

They put together spreadsheets where it kinda went down, but it kinda didnt go down, and it really mighta went up, kinda. If the handle did actually go down, kinda, well "we think that it is because of the Olympics. " After all, I guess there are some studies done that show the people who watch short track speed skating, are big horse bettors. We have just never got to see it.

So, it looks like the takeout increase will be extended to September.

Nope, guess again: it is working "so well" (and I am thinking since the Olympics are over) they dont even do that - they extend it to the end of the year.

Having a rational conversation is impossible in CA, and it always has been.

You are welcome to ask them for a 10% pick 4, or a 10% coupon for hot dogs, or whatever else. It is a free country.

But I have seen the past few years what has happened in CA, and I am done with them.

The HANA members will decide, through dialogue like this and through ideas like yours what they want to do. The organization is not worth 2 cents if it does not solicit feedback and work on that feedback. People have not spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours in 2010 to suddenly make unilateral decisions for horseplayers, and they wont start now.
All I am saying is that for me personally: The heroin addict girlfriend has stolen the last hundred from my dresser.
I'm not getting the statement in red. Unless I've been on another planet members and non members are looking for something to get behind. What are you saying you guys are there for if not to provide some direction for members looking to change things?
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:17 PM   #77
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Andy, last post.

Takeout went up at Los Al. People were mad about that, they, along with us, told people that Thoroughbred racing was next. They were mobilized and we did pretty well. That action taken was the result of horseplayers upset about takeout. We fired a shot and did some work on it. It obviously failed.

Now takeout has gone up in CA for tbred tracks, as we all knew it would.

It's going to be signed into law now and it will go up prolly Dec 26th.

What do players want to do about it, is the question that is out there. We'll advise and work on what the players want to do, if anything. If they choose to do nothing, we will move on and try and work on issues in states that might want to change things for the better.

Last edited by DeanT; 09-02-2010 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:20 PM   #78
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If you contact the owner of the store and let him know in a reasonable and intelligent manner the reasons you and others are not buying his bread - The next time you walk into the store you should have at least some expectation things will have improved. If not and you recontact the owner, and he tells you what you can do with your ideas about fresh loaves of bread at competitive prices...

At some point you HAVE to consider the possibility the owner of that store no longer deserve your business.


THE store no longer deserves YOUR business ladies and gentlemen. THEY are just taking the pee out of the US bettor.
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:20 PM   #79
andymays
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Originally Posted by DeanT
Andy, last post.

Takeout went up at Los Al. People were mad about that, they, along with us, told people that Thoroughbred racing was next. They were mobilized and we did pretty well. That action taken was the result of horseplayers upset about takeout. We fired a shot and did some work on it. It obviously failed.

Now takeout has gone up in CA for tbred tracks, as we all knew it would.

It's going to be signed into law now and it will go up prolly Dec 26th.

What do players want to do about it, is the question that is out there. We'll advise and work on what the players want to do, if anything. If they choose to do nothing, we will move on and try and work on issues in states that might want to change things for the better.
Not getting this at all.

You might as well open up an online Wellness Center. Good luck with that.

Last edited by andymays; 09-02-2010 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:58 PM   #80
cj
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Originally Posted by andymays
Not getting this at all.

You might as well open up an online Wellness Center. Good luck with that.
Who cares? California racing is dead to me.
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:02 AM   #81
Charlie D
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Agree with CJ

Who Cares. It's DEAD.
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:21 AM   #82
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I'm thinking that to help the bettor and offset the cost of the bet due to the takeout increase, every time you bet $100 you get a $2 or $3 off coupon on either a $13 margarita or $11 beer.
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:24 AM   #83
pandy
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Trackmaster blog

Good blog on takeout increase at trackmaster.com


The Vicious Cycle of Raising Takeout

http://blog.trackmaster.com/?p=2354
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:28 AM   #84
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You can shout slogans to the wind,but if you would like to participate, the next step is to try to gain a VETO. After that,yes or no, there will be more surprises....

rwwupl






Push for VETO of Ca. horse racing bill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More surprises, and I think there will be more yet...



http://www.latimes.com/business/la-...0,6421284.story


Group pledges push for veto of California horse racing bill
Opponents of gambling are targeting legislation that would allow bets on horses to lose.

Excerpt:


Quote:
Quote:
By Hugo Martín, Los Angeles Times

September 3, 2010


Gambling opponents vowed Thursday to lobby Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to veto a bill to revive the state's slumping horse racing industry and allow betting on horses to lose starting in 2012.

The bill, originally proposed by Assembly Speaker John Perez (D-Los Angeles), hopes to lure the nation's top horses by taking a greater share from the bets to increase the purse for winning horse owners. The Legislature took final action on the bill Tuesday.

A spokesman for the governor said he has not taken a position on the bill.





Quote:
Quote:
Near the end of the legislative session, Perez added language to allow the new betting scheme to begin in 2012 and continue until 2016. The delay would give firms that now accept horse racing bets time to prepare to the new exchange betting system.

A nonprofit group based in Sacramento promised to send mailers to nearly 10,000 churches and individuals in the next few days, urging them to call or write the governor to voice opposition to the bill.Rev. James Butler, executive director of the California Coalition Against Gambling Expansion, complained that the bill was significantly rewritten and passed in the final days of the legislative session, giving critics little opportunity to testify against it.
If you want to participate....

The Bill AB2414 or SB1072 ..Horse racing

CONTACT THE GOVERNOR Governor's Office:

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-558-3160 ( new number)


It does not matter if you go to church or not.. A VETO kills the whole bill.
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:28 PM   #85
chickenhead
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Originally Posted by andymays
I'm not getting the statement in red. Unless I've been on another planet members and non members are looking for something to get behind. What are you saying you guys are there for if not to provide some direction for members looking to change things?
Quote:
If we want the respect of the industry, if we want them to treat us as anything other than degenerates (which, let’s be honest with ourselves, is by and large how we are perceived) – then we must be conscious of how and with whom we wager. We must remember that every dollar we bet sends a message. Every time a track takes in a wager they see that as an “Atta boy. See -- we’re doing a good job. Another happy customer”.

So before you make your next bet at one of these tracks, think long and hard if that is precisely the message you wish to send them – because that is how they take it.

If we want change, we must systematically and consciously move our wagers to those venues that offer us more of the things we want. We must vote with our dollars, they are and always will be the most potent form of clout we have in this industry.

If you choose to wager at tracks that charge outrageous prices for a below average product – don’t be surprised if they don’t give you a lot of respect. You prove to them, with every wager you make – that they don’t have to.
HANA can't make any horseplayer follow the above advice. It's not a weekend thing, it's not something that should be expected to change anything. You need to stop betting at tracks that shit on you not to "show them" or "to fix things" but because you realize you simply can't stand giving them your money anymore. Once you reach that point -- the point you need to be at to make a meaningful withdrawal of play -- no one needs to tell you or attempt to organize you. You are DONE, and you don't care who's coming with you.

Last edited by chickenhead; 09-03-2010 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:47 PM   #86
andymays
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Originally Posted by chickenhead
HANA can't make any horseplayer follow the above advice. It's not a weekend thing, it's not something that should be expected to change anything. You need to stop betting at tracks that shit on you not to "show them" or "to fix things" but because you realize you simply can't stand giving them your money anymore. Once you reach that point -- the point you need to be at to make a meaningful withdrawal of play -- no one needs to tell you or attempt to organize you. You are DONE, and you don't care who's coming with you.
No kidding. HANA needs to lead and I believe they will this time.

Which tracks don't shit on "you"? You're giving me advice without offering a direction or solution. If you're saying that you don't think anyone should bet anywhere then say it.

What separates California from the rest in your opinion?

Is HANA a membership organization or not? People join because the want to fight back against an industry that doesn't respect them. They're looking for leaders to organize a proper response. That's what I believe they will do in the coming months.

Last edited by andymays; 09-03-2010 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:57 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by andymays
If you make a statement for three days and handle drops anywhere from 15% to 30% they will have to play ball or we do it again. Three days is easy. We will also get plenty of headlines making it much easier the next time we might need to do it. Once people see that it can be done more people will participate.
Three days? In your dreams. If you are going to take actions to elicit change then prepare to be engaged for the next year. This is not an easy road to travel because in most cases it involves giving up something that has become ingrained in a horseplayer's behavior due to habit or compulsion or just something to do. With a few exceptions, the racing product in California is so putrid that it deserves no money. There are plenty of good alternatives available for bettors that include a better product and lower costs.

If you want something that is "easy" then this is not the fight to sign up for. Look at what's happened here: The TOC and racing associations with the blessing of the CHRB have proven that they have the political clout to get whatever piece of our money they want. Were we consulted? Were our emails to elected representatives considered? Of couse not. Hell, they just took it! Yet their actions prove that our money is very important to them. And, because of that, we must recognize that our money is the only bargaining chip that we have. We must make our money the issue. On our terms. And, giving them NONE of it for any of their pools and showing complete disregard for their product is the only way we have a chance to gain a seat at the industry table that is equal in stature to the seats held by the TOC, racing associations and the CHRB.

If we do this maybe California will come to their senses, overhaul their product, reform their attitudes about takeout and stop reverting to their model of protecting the status quo. And, maybe the next time that Jeff Platt goes before the CHRB to make an intelligent presentation on horseplayers' behalf, that he will be received with respect instead of being subjected to ridicule and insult.
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:05 PM   #88
chickenhead
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Which tracks don't shit on "you"? You're giving me advice without offering a direction or solution. If you're saying that you don't think anyone should bet anywhere then say it.
I'm saying I don't really care -- its up to you. HANA isn't going to convince anyone of anything they don't already believe. Do YOU feel Cali is shitting on YOU? Then stop playing there! I don't care where else you play, if anywhere. Either YOU decide to stop playing Cali, or YOU don't. Multiply that by a thousand or so and you have HANA. Who is this person that is waiting for HANA to issue a press release to tell them how to bet? I haven't met them.

I don't have a direction or a solution, neither does HANA. Either keep getting shit on, or don't. It's your call.

Quote:
What separates California from the rest in your opinion?
They are my home circuit, the primary tracks I follow, and the tracks I go to. CHRB and TOC control both my on track and off track experience. My life as a horseplayer is directly controlled by them -- and they have ruined it. So I care more about what happens in Cali. They are able to shit more directly right onto my back if I let them.

Quote:
Is HANA a membership organization or not? People join because the want to fight back against an industry that doesn't respect them. They're looking for leaders to organize a proper response. That's what I believe they will do shortly.
By all means, HANA should call for it. My point is if you think that call would change anything, you're dreaming. Because that call will reach the ears of individuals. Individuals who are either already fed up and have already stopped playing Cali, or individuals who maybe care, maybe don't care, but will continue playing either way.

People like to punt their own personal responsibility onto HANA. If you play $100K a year into Cali pools, your own personal choice about how to respond has more bang than any HANA press release. HANA doesn't bet any money directly into the pools.

The strongest argument for HANA calling for a boycott isn't that it will do anything, it's merely so HANA (and their members) could garner credit and go "na-na na-na-na if handle goes down drastically. But it's not really HANA's credit, it's all the individual horseplayers out there. By all means HANA, go for the gold, grab any credit you can for your members. I have my doubts there will be much credit to pass around, however, based on what I've seen.
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:11 PM   #89
andymays
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Three days? In your dreams. If you are going to take actions to elicit change then prepare to be engaged for the next year. This is not an easy road to travel because in most cases it involves giving up something that has become ingrained in a horseplayer's behavior due to habit or compulsion or just something to do. With a few exceptions, the racing product in California is so putrid that it deserves no money. There are plenty of good alternatives available for bettors that include a better product and lower costs.

If you want something that is "easy" then this is not the fight to sign up for . Look at what's happened here: The TOC and racing associations with the blessing of the CHRB have proven that they have the political clout to get whatever piece of our money they want. Were we consulted? Were our emails to elected representatives considered? Of couse not. Hell, they just took it! Yet their actions prove that our money is very important to them. And, because of that, we must recognize that our money is the only bargaining chip that we have. We must make our money the issue. On our terms. And, giving them NONE of it for any of their pools and showing complete disregard for their product is the only way we have a chance to gain a seat at the industry table that is equal in stature to the seats held by the TOC, racing associations and the CHRB.

If we do this maybe California will come to their senses, overhaul their product, reform their attitudes about takeout and stop reverting to their model of protecting the status quo. And, maybe the next time that Jeff Platt goes before the CHRB to make an intelligent presentation on horseplayers' behalf, that he will be received with respect instead of being subjected to ridicule and insult.
All due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. If something is called for it will most likely be for a short period at first.

As far as what is easy and what is not easy I doubt that anyone other than rwwupl has made a stronger effort than myself to change things in California over the last couple of years. I don't expect you to know that but that's a fact.

I'm very aware of what happened to Jeff. I sent this out to Brackpool and several other notables in California on July 23rd in response to what happened. Did you send anything out?

Regarding this thing with Jeff Platt and Barry Meadow of the Horseplayers Association I'd like to know who the hell Brackpool thinks he is?

The CHRB went back on their word regarding the takeout hike at Los Alamitos. They are a dishonest bunch who fixes the outcome of the meetings before they happen. Brackpool ought to apologize for treating Jeff that way.

Brackpool blew it on this one and ought to get the hell out if he's going to treat Horseplayers/the people of California this way. If you can't stand the heat Mr. Brackpool then take a hike and hand the CHRB over to Stronach.

What a group here in California. Disgrace after disgrace. And the hits keep coming.

Thanks for nothing again,

Andy

Last edited by andymays; 09-03-2010 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:25 PM   #90
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On another positive note.


Indicators: Handle Off $100 Million in August | BloodHorse.com

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...lion-in-august
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