Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > Horseplayers Association of North America (H.A.N.A.)


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 09-02-2010, 04:24 PM   #46
rwwupl
Registered User
 
rwwupl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbauer
This kind of argument escapes me. Why would you want to be a California loyalist when all they do is make fun of you, belittle you and snicker while they take your money? Why would you give them ANY money in ANY pool. What kind of COURAGE is that? If this issue is not enought to get HANA to become more activist and more confrontational then HANA should just packup its bags and call it quits. The time to stop being "nice" with owners' groups and racetrack owners was 2 years ago when HANA started.

And, if the people in charge at HANA think that I'm out of line, kindly delete my name from the members list.
rrbauer,

Note at the top it is a suggestion.

It would make the point that raising the takeout does not increase business, and customers shy away. Complete "Boycotts" do not work. Can you cite anywhere that a horse racing boycott has forced the regulators,racing managers or state legislators to reverse themselves?

I am personally against empty threats,breaking arms and thug tactics, as I am sure you are too.

Telling people to just stop betting is like telling a fat person that he can solve his problem if he would just stop eating,true but impractable.We are all gamblers,enjoy it, and some are Californians, who do not want to hurt the industry or State, just make it better.

We are looking for a proper solution,that does not cost an arm or a leg, to show the racing managers that they are heading in the wrong direction and we need a consensus of opinion if anything is to be effective. Bomb throwing may do more harm to HANA and California racing than good. What do you mean by "Activists and Confrontational"? I do not think that is the Goal. There are enough problems now.

We are grown ups and Horse players and all of us have been beat up many times, and most of us know how to turn the page. When we get beat up we make a new plan...here we are.

This is a time to bring on ideas, and thrash them around to see if they are practical or just rhetoric and we are counting on senior members such as yourself to contribute. If you have something to say ,please be specific and offer what you have in mind.

Lets not disparage the ideas of others, lets just forward a better idea, and see what has traction. A reasonable and doable solution will appear with your and others help. In California, we have until the Santa Anita meet to decide.

Thanks,

rwwupl

Last edited by rwwupl; 09-02-2010 at 04:32 PM.
rwwupl is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 04:42 PM   #47
InsideThePylons-MW
Registered User
 
InsideThePylons-MW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwwupl
We are grown ups and Horse players and all of us have been beat up many times, and most of us know how to turn the page. When we get beat up we make a new plan...here we are.
Not all of us have your tolerance level of being shiit on and coming back for more.

Jeff seems to have had enough and some of us have been at this years and years longer than he has.

I don't think our way of thinking makes us non-grown ups.

I hope you understand and can accept that.

Last edited by InsideThePylons-MW; 09-02-2010 at 04:43 PM.
InsideThePylons-MW is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 04:54 PM   #48
Charlie D
Registered User
 
Charlie D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gods County, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,533
Don't know the reason, but the Betfair Live feed for US racing is gone.


My suspicion is, just like the Take Out rises , this is racing leaders saying bollox to the fans/ customers. Well, i think it's time the fans/customers started saying bollox to you racing leaders we have had enough of this BS.

That's my $2 worth.

Last edited by Charlie D; 09-02-2010 at 04:58 PM.
Charlie D is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 05:15 PM   #49
DeanT
Registered User
 
DeanT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,960
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie D
Don't know the reason, but the Betfair Live feed for US racing is gone.


My suspicion is, just like the Take Out rises , this is racing leaders saying bollox to the fans/ customers. Well, i think it's time the fans/customers started saying bollox to you racing leaders we have had enough of this BS.

That's my $2 worth.
The first wave will be takeout hikes and hiking signal fees to squeeze whatever part of the lemon is left.

The second wave will be protectionism - control everything, including the feeds. Another part of that will be more signal restriction - i.e. you bet with us at high take, or you bet nowhere.

JMO on that, but from having watched this industry for a long time, I think it might happen like that. They exhaust every option first, before choosing competing.
DeanT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 05:23 PM   #50
Indulto
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwwupl
rrbauer,

Note at the top it is a suggestion.

It would make the point that raising the takeout does not increase business, and customers shy away. Complete "Boycotts" do not work. Can you cite anywhere that a horse racing boycott has forced the regulators,racing managers or state legislators to reverse themselves?

I am personally against empty threats,breaking arms and thug tactics, as I am sure you are too.

Telling people to just stop betting is like telling a fat person that he can solve his problem if he would just stop eating,true but impractable.We are all gamblers,enjoy it, and some are Californians, who do not want to hurt the industry or State, just make it better.

We are looking for a proper solution,that does not cost an arm or a leg, to show the racing managers that they are heading in the wrong direction and we need a consensus of opinion if anything is to be effective. Bomb throwing may do more harm to HANA and California racing than good. What do you mean by "Activists and Confrontational"? I do not think that is the Goal. There are enough problems now.

We are grown ups and Horse players and all of us have been beat up many times, and most of us know how to turn the page. When we get beat up we make a new plan...here we are.

This is a time to bring on ideas, and thrash them around to see if they are practical or just rhetoric and we are counting on senior members such as yourself to contribute. If you have something to say ,please be specific and offer what you have in mind.

Lets not disparage the ideas of others, lets just forward a better idea, and see what has traction. A reasonable and doable solution will appear with your and others help. In California, we have until the Santa Anita meet to decide.
...
rw,
Let's be clear from the onset that no-one is advocating violence of any sort. To equate passion which is what we desperately need to win this battle with irresponsible behavior is not appropriate.

As far as California racing's survival is concerned, we'll have to come to terms with what is worth surviving to whom. Racing at the highest level of the SPORT will continue even if year round, lower-level racing does not. Santa Anita will survive as a Triple Crown prep venue as long as owners capable of buying or breeding such competitors exist. They don't depend solely on horseplayers to fund their competition. Whatever else survives at this point should be required to do so on its own merits by offering a worthwhile product.

I agree with your underlined statements above, but mutual respect is not possible when some are questioning the maturity levels of others.
Indulto is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 05:42 PM   #51
rrbauer
Both-hands Bettor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NASCAR Country
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwwupl
rrbauer,

Note at the top it is a suggestion.

rwwupl
Fine. It is a BAD suggestion.
__________________
Richard Bauer
rrbauer is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 05:49 PM   #52
highnote
Registered User
 
highnote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,861
There is nothing to stop us from betting amongst ourselves. Just like a private poker game. I'm sure some enterprising programmers can figure out how to write some software for this. Actually, all you need is skype or a chat room.

The racetracks need customers, but customers don't need racetracks.

Last edited by swetyejohn; 09-02-2010 at 05:50 PM.
highnote is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 05:58 PM   #53
rwwupl
Registered User
 
rwwupl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbauer
Fine. It is a BAD suggestion.


I have made bad suggestions before,...I can handle it. Anything more?
rwwupl is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 06:04 PM   #54
andymays
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by swetyejohn
There is nothing to stop us from betting amongst ourselves. Just like a private poker game. I'm sure some enterprising programmers can figure out how to write some software for this. Actually, all you need is skype or a chat room.

The racetracks need customers, but customers don't need racetracks.
Can anyone tell me why betting offshore wouldn't be as good as a boycott or "suspension of play"?

If you have to play then play offshore out of the pools. And get a decent rebate.
andymays is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 06:26 PM   #55
rwwupl
Registered User
 
rwwupl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays
Can anyone tell me why betting offshore wouldn't be as good as a boycott or "suspension of play"?

If you have to play then play offshore out of the pools. And get a decent rebate.


Andy,

Do you have experience with them? Could you recommend some with links?

All ideas should be explored. Any other opinions?
rwwupl is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 06:29 PM   #56
andymays
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwwupl
Andy,

Do you have experience with them? Could you recommend some with links?

All ideas should be explored. Any other opinions?

Post #45.

I played with them a while back and never had a problem. I'm thinking of going back. They used to only pay 300-1 on exotics. Now they pay 5000-1 on P4's. Most of the other limits have been raises since I played with them.

http://www.allhorseracing.com/racebook

Last edited by andymays; 09-02-2010 at 06:32 PM.
andymays is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 06:36 PM   #57
rwwupl
Registered User
 
rwwupl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by swetyejohn
There is nothing to stop us from betting amongst ourselves. Just like a private poker game. I'm sure some enterprising programmers can figure out how to write some software for this. Actually, all you need is skype or a chat room.

The racetracks need customers, but customers don't need racetracks.


Swetyjohn,

We understand that they need us ,more than we need them.

How can we prove that to them,without throwing out the baby with the bathwater?

Starting a new ADW is one answer, what if we all decided to place our wagers with a designated ADW one week, and another next week and so on, would that demonstrate they should make accomodations for the customers?
rwwupl is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 06:53 PM   #58
Charli125
Registered User
 
Charli125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 1,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwwupl
Starting a new ADW is one answer, what if we all decided to place our wagers with a designated ADW one week, and another next week and so on, would that demonstrate they should make accomodations for the customers?
I had to laugh when I read this. I've always thought that starting a non-profit ADW would be the way to go; it just makes sense to me. Rebate everything over the signal fee(and overhead of course) to the players. Handle would go through the roof. Unfortunately, the only tracks you would be able to get would be Tioga and Arapahoe or something like that. You would immediately be boycotted by every track for "stealing" all of their on-track players.
Charli125 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 07:01 PM   #59
rwwupl
Registered User
 
rwwupl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli125
I had to laugh when I read this. I've always thought that starting a non-profit ADW would be the way to go; it just makes sense to me. Rebate everything over the signal fee(and overhead of course) to the players. Handle would go through the roof. Unfortunately, the only tracks you would be able to get would be Tioga and Arapahoe or something like that. You would immediately be boycotted by every track for "stealing" all of their on-track players.
I think we have some laws about "restraint of trade"...So if HorseplayersBet. com(Example only) decided to handle our business exclusive,and gave us all a large rebate, and charged a "Membership Fee" he would be boycotted by the horsemen and tracks restricting his signal and access?

Any lawyers out there?

Last edited by rwwupl; 09-02-2010 at 07:05 PM.
rwwupl is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-02-2010, 07:05 PM   #60
andymays
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwwupl
I think we have some laws about "restraint of trade"...So if HorseplayersBet. com decided to handle our business exclusive,and gave us all a large rebate, and charged a "Membership Fee" he would be boycotted by the horsemen and tracks restricting his signal and access?

Any lawyers out there?

What was that old Willie Nelson song?

"Momas don't let your babies grow up to be Horseplayers."
andymays is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
» Current Polls
How do you prefer your Coffee !?
Cream and Sugar - 28.57%
30 Votes
Cream only - 20.00%
21 Votes
Black - 41.90%
44 Votes
Decaf - 9.52%
10 Votes
Espresso - 12.38%
13 Votes
Starbucks etc... - 9.52%
10 Votes
Other - 23.81%
25 Votes
Total Votes: 105
This poll is closed.
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2020 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved -- Best Viewed in a modern browser @ 1280x720 Resolution Or Higher
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.