Ca. State Senate Hearing(AB2414)

[rwwupl]

Originally Posted by rrbauer

This kind of argument escapes me. Why would you want to be a California loyalist when all they do is make fun of you, belittle you and snicker while they take your money? Why would you give them ANY money in ANY pool. What kind of COURAGE is that? If this issue is not enought to get HANA to become more activist and more confrontational then HANA should just packup its bags and call it quits. The time to stop being "nice" with owners' groups and racetrack owners was 2 years ago when HANA started.

And, if the people in charge at HANA think that I'm out of line, kindly delete my name from the members list.

rrbauer,

Note at the top it is a suggestion.

It would make the point that raising the takeout does not increase business, and customers shy away. Complete "Boycotts" do not work. Can you cite anywhere that a horse racing boycott has forced the regulators,racing managers or state legislators to reverse themselves?

I am personally against empty threats,breaking arms and thug tactics, as I am sure you are too.

Telling people to just stop betting is like telling a fat person that he can solve his problem if he would just stop eating,true but impractable.We are all gamblers,enjoy it, and some are Californians, who do not want to hurt the industry or State, just make it better.

We are looking for a proper solution,that does not cost an arm or a leg, to show the racing managers that they are heading in the wrong direction and we need a consensus of opinion if anything is to be effective. Bomb throwing may do more harm to HANA and California racing than good. What do you mean by "Activists and Confrontational"? I do not think that is the Goal. There are enough problems now.

We are grown ups and Horse players and all of us have been beat up many times, and most of us know how to turn the page. When we get beat up we make a new plan...here we are.

This is a time to bring on ideas, and thrash them around to see if they are practical or just rhetoric and we are counting on senior members such as yourself to contribute. If you have something to say ,please be specific and offer what you have in mind.

Lets not disparage the ideas of others, lets just forward a better idea, and see what has traction. A reasonable and doable solution will appear with your and others help. In California, we have until the Santa Anita meet to decide.

Thanks,

rwwupl

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

We are grown ups and Horse players and all of us have been beat up many times, and most of us know how to turn the page. When we get beat up we make a new plan...here we are.

Not all of us have your tolerance level of being shiit on and coming back for more.

Jeff seems to have had enough and some of us have been at this years and years longer than he has.

I don't think our way of thinking makes us non-grown ups.

I hope you understand and can accept that.

[Charlie D]

Don't know the reason, but the Betfair Live feed for US racing is gone.


My suspicion is, just like the Take Out rises , this is racing leaders saying bollox to the fans/ customers. Well, i think it's time the fans/customers started saying bollox to you racing leaders we have had enough of this BS.

That's my $2 worth.

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by Charlie D

Don't know the reason, but the Betfair Live feed for US racing is gone.


My suspicion is, just like the Take Out rises , this is racing leaders saying bollox to the fans/ customers. Well, i think it's time the fans/customers started saying bollox to you racing leaders we have had enough of this BS.

That's my $2 worth.

The first wave will be takeout hikes and hiking signal fees to squeeze whatever part of the lemon is left.

The second wave will be protectionism - control everything, including the feeds. Another part of that will be more signal restriction - i.e. you bet with us at high take, or you bet nowhere.

JMO on that, but from having watched this industry for a long time, I think it might happen like that. They exhaust every option first, before choosing competing.

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

rrbauer,

Note at the top it is a suggestion.

It would make the point that raising the takeout does not increase business, and customers shy away. Complete "Boycotts" do not work. Can you cite anywhere that a horse racing boycott has forced the regulators,racing managers or state legislators to reverse themselves?

I am personally against empty threats,breaking arms and thug tactics, as I am sure you are too.

Telling people to just stop betting is like telling a fat person that he can solve his problem if he would just stop eating,true but impractable.We are all gamblers,enjoy it, and some are Californians, who do not want to hurt the industry or State, just make it better.

We are looking for a proper solution,that does not cost an arm or a leg, to show the racing managers that they are heading in the wrong direction and we need a consensus of opinion if anything is to be effective. Bomb throwing may do more harm to HANA and California racing than good. What do you mean by "Activists and Confrontational"? I do not think that is the Goal. There are enough problems now.

We are grown ups and Horse players and all of us have been beat up many times, and most of us know how to turn the page. When we get beat up we make a new plan...here we are.

This is a time to bring on ideas, and thrash them around to see if they are practical or just rhetoric and we are counting on senior members such as yourself to contribute. If you have something to say ,please be specific and offer what you have in mind.

Lets not disparage the ideas of others, lets just forward a better idea, and see what has traction. A reasonable and doable solution will appear with your and others help. In California, we have until the Santa Anita meet to decide.
...

rw,
Let's be clear from the onset that no-one is advocating violence of any sort. To equate passion which is what we desperately need to win this battle with irresponsible behavior is not appropriate.

As far as California racing's survival is concerned, we'll have to come to terms with what is worth surviving to whom. Racing at the highest level of the SPORT will continue even if year round, lower-level racing does not. Santa Anita will survive as a Triple Crown prep venue as long as owners capable of buying or breeding such competitors exist. They don't depend solely on horseplayers to fund their competition. Whatever else survives at this point should be required to do so on its own merits by offering a worthwhile product.

I agree with your underlined statements above, but mutual respect is not possible when some are questioning the maturity levels of others.

[rrbauer]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

rrbauer,

Note at the top it is a suggestion.

rwwupl

Fine. It is a BAD suggestion.

[highnote]

There is nothing to stop us from betting amongst ourselves. Just like a private poker game. I'm sure some enterprising programmers can figure out how to write some software for this. Actually, all you need is skype or a chat room.

The racetracks need customers, but customers don't need racetracks.

[rwwupl]

Originally Posted by rrbauer

Fine. It is a BAD suggestion.

I have made bad suggestions before,...I can handle it. Anything more?

[andymays]

Originally Posted by swetyejohn

There is nothing to stop us from betting amongst ourselves. Just like a private poker game. I'm sure some enterprising programmers can figure out how to write some software for this. Actually, all you need is skype or a chat room.

The racetracks need customers, but customers don't need racetracks.

Can anyone tell me why betting offshore wouldn't be as good as a boycott or "suspension of play"?

If you have to play then play offshore out of the pools. And get a decent rebate.

[rwwupl]

Originally Posted by andymays

Can anyone tell me why betting offshore wouldn't be as good as a boycott or "suspension of play"?

If you have to play then play offshore out of the pools. And get a decent rebate.

Andy,

Do you have experience with them? Could you recommend some with links?

All ideas should be explored. Any other opinions?

[andymays]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

Andy,

Do you have experience with them? Could you recommend some with links?

All ideas should be explored. Any other opinions?

Post #45.

I played with them a while back and never had a problem. I'm thinking of going back. They used to only pay 300-1 on exotics. Now they pay 5000-1 on P4's. Most of the other limits have been raises since I played with them.

http://www.allhorseracing.com/racebook

[rwwupl]

Originally Posted by swetyejohn

There is nothing to stop us from betting amongst ourselves. Just like a private poker game. I'm sure some enterprising programmers can figure out how to write some software for this. Actually, all you need is skype or a chat room.

The racetracks need customers, but customers don't need racetracks.

Swetyjohn,

We understand that they need us ,more than we need them.

How can we prove that to them,without throwing out the baby with the bathwater?

Starting a new ADW is one answer, what if we all decided to place our wagers with a designated ADW one week, and another next week and so on, would that demonstrate they should make accomodations for the customers?

[Charli125]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

Starting a new ADW is one answer, what if we all decided to place our wagers with a designated ADW one week, and another next week and so on, would that demonstrate they should make accomodations for the customers?

I had to laugh when I read this. I've always thought that starting a non-profit ADW would be the way to go; it just makes sense to me. Rebate everything over the signal fee(and overhead of course) to the players. Handle would go through the roof. Unfortunately, the only tracks you would be able to get would be Tioga and Arapahoe or something like that. You would immediately be boycotted by every track for "stealing" all of their on-track players.

[rwwupl]

Originally Posted by Charli125

I had to laugh when I read this. I've always thought that starting a non-profit ADW would be the way to go; it just makes sense to me. Rebate everything over the signal fee(and overhead of course) to the players. Handle would go through the roof. Unfortunately, the only tracks you would be able to get would be Tioga and Arapahoe or something like that. You would immediately be boycotted by every track for "stealing" all of their on-track players.

I think we have some laws about "restraint of trade"...So if HorseplayersBet. com(Example only) decided to handle our business exclusive,and gave us all a large rebate, and charged a "Membership Fee" he would be boycotted by the horsemen and tracks restricting his signal and access?

Any lawyers out there?

[andymays]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

I think we have some laws about "restraint of trade"...So if HorseplayersBet. com decided to handle our business exclusive,and gave us all a large rebate, and charged a "Membership Fee" he would be boycotted by the horsemen and tracks restricting his signal and access?

Any lawyers out there?

What was that old Willie Nelson song?

"Momas don't let your babies grow up to be Horseplayers."