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Old 05-18-2016, 07:57 PM   #16
Ocala Mike
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I wonder: If you catch a winner shipping in from China, do you feel like you need another winner 30 minutes later?
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Old 05-18-2016, 07:59 PM   #17
rastajenk
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Not just bettors, although that's always the focus around here. I imagine the owners of the other maidens in that race might be a little irked, too. But what can you do?
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Old 05-18-2016, 08:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocala Mike
I wonder: If you catch a winner shipping in from China, do you feel like you need another winner 30 minutes later?
No, O'Mike!! If I'd known he crossed the finished line first in CHINA, I'd have bet my house on him, I don't care if it took a search light to find him at GP. Dude's got a powerful set of lungs, that's all I figure.
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Old 05-18-2016, 08:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWon
Wouldn't that look worse, for a horse to show one maiden race in its PPs, be entered in some ALW and then win at even higher odds??

Fact is, this is not a TAP problem or a NYRA/GP problem or a TDN problem that the horse ran as a maiden twice when it had won before. The ONLY entity culpable in this is The Jockey Club as it controls the data and regulates which jurisdictions/countries get denoted in North American cataloging and past performances. Period.

Haven't you ever seen the beef at the end of some years where one stallion is over/under credited with purse money affecting his ranking on the Sire Lists? It's because Equibase/Equineline Sire Lists differ from Bloodhorse or TDN in how it calculates the purses from Asian countries including Japan and China.

This is the same situation. Even if the stewards, or Todd and the owners had told everyone and their brother (which they kind of did via the Jan article on the owners) the horse is a multiple winner, there is NO way those Chinese races would have or will show up on ANY North American data produced using Equibase until Jockey Club decides to make that change with its cataloging policy.

You don't like what happened here? Make it know to Jockey Club and Equibase and hold them accountable for fixing data integrity issue. THEY are the ONLY ones with that capability to do so in North America.
Isn't a trainer who enters a horse representing that the horse meets the eligibility requirements.

The only way this ever doesn't happen is if connections know that licenses are going to be suspended if it does. Blaming the Jockey Club is letting everyone off the hook.
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Old 05-18-2016, 09:33 PM   #20
iamt
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If a trainer wakes up one morning and decides to race is horse against each other at training one morning, does the winner of the "Race" get recognised as a winner??

This is a more extreme example of a similar idea. These were unofficial races in the eyes of the Jockey Club, the result means nothing because they never really happened. They are just a particular fancy workout.
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:26 PM   #21
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Quote...because he was born in the Southern Hemisphere, Mongolian Prince is considered a 4 year old here, but was classified as a 3 year old in China...end quote.

What has the Southern Hemisphere have to do with age/ time?
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamt
If a trainer wakes up one morning and decides to race is horse against each other at training one morning, does the winner of the "Race" get recognised as a winner??

This is a more extreme example of a similar idea. These were unofficial races in the eyes of the Jockey Club, the result means nothing because they never really happened. They are just a particular fancy workout.
Actually, I think if you want legalized betting, the answer to your first question should either be "yes" or "the bettors get to find out about it".

Seriously, if you prefer the rule that horses can race without the public knowing about it, let's get rid of legalized betting and allow horsemen to do whatever they want.

But if they want the public's betting money to fund their purses, they need to disclose stuff like this, and when they don't, it should be a very stiff suspension, or even "find another line of work".
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
Quote...because he was born in the Southern Hemisphere, Mongolian Prince is considered a 4 year old here, but was classified as a 3 year old in China...end quote.

What has the Southern Hemisphere have to do with age/ time?
Breeding sesaon. They bring in their spring there, which is our fall. So the horses are a half year younger when measured from January 1.
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Old 05-18-2016, 11:21 PM   #24
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1/15

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...-horse-in-u-s/

1/18

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/th...golian-prince/


They weren't trying to hide anything from anyone. The horse's record was known before he raced at Gulfstream.

Again, the issue in all of this is the Jockey club and their policy on recognising Chinese races; not anything that any of the participants have done.
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Old 05-18-2016, 11:57 PM   #25
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If you did your homework as a horseplayer wouldn't you have known this in advance?
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Old 05-19-2016, 07:54 AM   #26
dilanesp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamt
1/15

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...-horse-in-u-s/

1/18

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/th...golian-prince/


They weren't trying to hide anything from anyone. The horse's record was known before he raced at Gulfstream.

Again, the issue in all of this is the Jockey club and their policy on recognising Chinese races; not anything that any of the participants have done.
I don't accept that they weren't "trying to hide anything" until it is established that not one person connected with that horse cashed a winning mutuel ticket on him at 16 to 1.

If anyone did, that's guilt enough for me.
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Old 05-19-2016, 08:18 AM   #27
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I was wrong in my prior post. I agree this was a JC problem. The trainer must've talked to someone to establish what conditions he was eligible for here and I can't blame him. It was definitely unfair to bettors as a stake or race with a $50k purse isn't some Aiken trial race.
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Old 05-19-2016, 08:29 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robes
Why give the biggest crook the benefit of the. Doubt?
Why give ANYONE the benefit of the doubt?
Horses racing integrity is it's most important asset.

This is NOT the WWE here....time to act like there is still some integrity left.
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Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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Old 05-19-2016, 08:34 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Why give ANYONE the benefit of the doubt?
Horses racing integrity is it's most important asset.

This is NOT the WWE here....time to act like there is still some integrity left.
In many races I bet on this winter, it strictly was the WWE. Scripted entertainment.

Now that the racing is more honest, it's a whole lot more fun and profitable. (Except for this 1 put over BUT for the record, I was positively impacted by this winner. However, I'm still not happy about it. Just not right).
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Old 05-19-2016, 10:44 AM   #30
Thomas Roulston
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The new Lebon/Cinzano?

Sort of.
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