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Poll: Which best describes your gains or losses, from race wagering, per year.
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Which best describes your gains or losses, from race wagering, per year.

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Old 11-24-2010, 09:45 AM   #166
lamboguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
Among some very large rebate operations, the belief is that if you are breaking even, you are not betting enough money. Bet more, and make it back on the rebate.
the law of diminishing return's definately show's up the the parimutuel wagering game.

since this is true and racing hasn't been able to re-plentish its customer base, the "old" customer's have cut back the amount's of their wagering activities.

i have been betting alot of canadien b-track harness wagering lately, and i never bet more than $10.00 in the W PS pools. there are plenty of win pools with less than $1200 in it. a $20 bill would drop a horse win odds from 10-1 down to 6-1.

the most important rule i have now is to never overbet the pools no matter how good my rebate is. when the wagering company complain's that you are not giving them enough action, i tell them to find more customer"s
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:31 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy
the most important rule i have now is to never overbet the pools no matter how good my rebate is. There is a sweet spot, or unit size that will maximize the amount of money one can make. It is a balance between the rebate you make and the amount of pool dilution caused by one's wager. Theoretically it is easy to calculate. In practice, it is much more at risk as the calculations assume that one's ROI is constant and repeatable, and they are often not. when the wagering company complain's that you are not giving them enough action, i tell them to find more customer"s With so many different options available, tell them you are going elsewhere. It is now a CONSUMER'S market.
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Old 11-25-2010, 02:03 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy

i have been betting alot of canadien b-track harness wagering lately, and i never bet more than $10.00 in the W PS pools. there are plenty of win pools with less than $1200 in it. a $20 bill would drop a horse win odds from 10-1 down to 6-1.
Is this really true?

I also play these Canadian harness b-tracks whenever I find myself at an OTB at night. I make $50-$100 win bets...and I'm always amazed to see the action my horses get - right after I bet them.

I never thought that the win pools were that low...

Last edited by thaskalos; 11-25-2010 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 11-25-2010, 02:45 AM   #169
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BloodHorse.com reporting on the national HBPA convention in New Orleans 2 years ago, featured an interview with the guy who runs RGS, a high volume so-called "rebate shop". He stated that 80 individuals per day were betting a total $445 million (RGS minimum account is $1 Million per year).

If 80 guys are wagering this much and getting 10% plus rebate it's certainly no stretch to think there's a half dozen such guys on this Forum, who basically break even and then profit > 100K on rebates alone.

Bloodhorse.com - Jury Out on Rebates Computer Bets

"Brooks said RGS in 2007 handled $445.2 million and paid $19.8 million in host fees to racetracks. The company averaged 80 active customers per day last year, he said."
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Old 11-25-2010, 02:53 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Is this really true?

I never thought that the Win pools were that low...
Those harness tracks look like Churchill Downs compared to some of the greyhound tracks I play... There are simulcast dog tracks with less than $400 in the Win pool... All of the action is in exotics where they handle maybe $5000 each on Trifecta and Supers. Total daily handles of $60K weekdays
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Old 11-25-2010, 09:48 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
I also play these Canadian harness b-tracks whenever I find myself at an OTB at night. I make $50-$100 win bets...and I'm always amazed to see the action my horses get - right after I bet them.

I never thought that the win pools were that low...
Right. A $100 bet at some of those b harness tracks and you are the action.
A teller was telling me that each night some guy was coming in and laying down a couple of hundred dollars on a Northern Harness track races . He complained to the teller that "How come I go to play it and the horse is double digits? Then when I play it it's close to being the favorite?"
Finally one evening the teller told him "You are the pool."
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:56 AM   #172
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Talking

Still hard to believe that 13 respondents here make over $100,000 a year betting the horses. For me it's almost always win or lose <$1,000 - I don't bet that much although I visit the track at least a couple times a week. For 2010 I will win >$1,000. Good luck the rest of the year to all you horseplayers!

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Old 11-29-2010, 12:08 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy
i have been betting alot of canadien b-track harness wagering lately, and i never bet more than $10.00 in the W PS pools. there are plenty of win pools with less than $1200 in it. a $20 bill would drop a horse win odds from 10-1 down to 6-1.
One night in 1980's I was at Lewiston in Maine for the harness races. I hit a $2 exacta for something like $186. Later that night a guy who worked at the track told me two people hit that exacta and split the pool.
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:19 PM   #174
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what amazes me is that so few people make 25k or 50k. I guess pool shopping is easier than I thought. I would thought more one man operations would be playing only one or two pools there by limiting their profits. For the record I am such a small better that I would have to have a hella of year to be plus 5k.
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:28 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Zippy Chippy
My question is, honestly. If you are very very good at handicapping and make 100k a year, why is there a limit on what you can make? Why couldn't you up every bet by 5x and make 500,000? Im guessing the bets aren't that high that it would effect the pools.

Zippy,

I tried that. It didnt work. Went from 1,000,000 to over 4,000,000 in handle one year. Worst year I ever had from an ROI standpoint, if not for rebate, I wouldve had a terrible year. Since then, I've went back to my old way of playing.
The cause was playing too much money into smaller pools. Thought the rebate would overcome that, but it really wasnt the case. Word of advice for anyone just starting out playing with the rebate. Don't change the way you play by increasing the amounts you play when getting the rebate. You'll begin counting on the rebate and begin trying to make wagers just to breakeven.
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:04 AM   #176
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For me it's a hobby, if I bet too much I don't enjoy it. It's not worth worrying about the money. The fun in it to me is trying to make sense out of the DRF. If I win BIG in any given day it's never more than a couple hundred, and if I lose it's far less than that.
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Old 12-19-2010, 08:38 PM   #177
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Not a normal bell curve

Okay, for anyone who's dabbled in elem. statistics, the chart at top of page looks suspicious. It's almost like a classic bell curve, except for the abnormal number of players claiming to win over 100K. So I'm calling bullshido. For the record I picked lose over $1K, some years closer to 2 or 3K. Whosonfirst
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Old 12-19-2010, 11:33 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Whosonfirst
Okay, for anyone who's dabbled in elem. statistics, the chart at top of page looks suspicious. It's almost like a classic bell curve, except for the abnormal number of players claiming to win over 100K. So I'm calling bullshido. For the record I picked lose over $1K, some years closer to 2 or 3K. Whosonfirst
The sample is not random.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:38 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goren
The sample is not random.
Correct, PA is not a random sample of your average player.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:57 AM   #180
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Perhaps a poll asking for frequency of play rather than level of success, would be more telling...and probably more honest.
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