Got An idea to improve Racing?

[Tara73]

1- Lower the Take
2- Rebates For Every Dollar Bet
3- Exchange Wagering

[antigeekess]

Persuade good ole Uncle Sam to take it a little easier on exotics players?

(Yeah, right.)

[JustRalph]

I just watched a couple of those "night school" vids......just curious.......why is nobody watching these things? These guys seem to be putting some serious work into this show. They even provide "study materials" on their website. I have to say I kind of like them, even if most is geared to newbies.

under 3k views for most and under 1k for some.

They seem to be done pretty damn well. Why are "we" not watching this? Maybe why are "you" not watching this show?

Just curious.........

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

....Maybe why are "you" not watching this show?

Just curious.........

My answer: This is in no way disparaging the product they are putting out or the intention they have, but I just don't think it matters. The changes that have to be implemented are too vast and wide reaching.

The following are some examples of what I think might have to be addressed to assist in achieving a new influx of fans and followers:

1. PED'S. The single most destructive thing to hit horse racing is the obvious cheating. It taints the legitimacy of the accomplishments in the game. I have no idea what it would take to catch the cheaters but I just don't think it's a fair fight right now. The chemists are showing up with a missile launcher and the racing industry is bringing a wooden spoon.

2. Tax modification. The current tax laws are old, outdated and absurd. However, the horse racing industry has almost zero pull with legislators and law makers to amend this. Ain't gonna happen.

3. Governing Body. Without a governing body, real collaboration and oversight will never happen and it is sorely missing. Universal drug laws and suspensions are the only chance to start eradicating the habitual drug users. However, there are too many competing interests and agendas at stake to ever give control to one universal figure. Ain't gonna happen.

4. High Definition. The only thing this game really has going for it outside of the core audience is the ambiance of racing. However, this can hardly be relayed to the casual fan in standard definition on a computer screen or even a TV screen. Hell, I can barely tell what number just got up for 2nd. In today's world, imagery is everything. Just look at the advancements in technology in the past 5 years. The product is shown in a very non-appealing format, not to mention the "same saddlecloth colors on big days" absurdity.

5. Lack of Racing Stars. Too many name runners are retired after one year or less in the spotlight, only to be replaced by new names. Thus, the peripheral fan has nothing to "grab" them. The days of horses like Seabiscuit or John Henry are likely over, for the most part. This hurts in attracting fans.

6. Understanding The Audience/Marketing. I am guessing there has never been a study done on what attracts people like me (eat, sleep and shit this game) versus most others that go to the races and don't come back for months or years. There is a certain genetic make-up that hard core horseplayers have. My guess is there are very few of us that don't also love a strategic challenge of data mining and hypothesizing. However, I am sure there are many other underlying traits that we have in common that should be unearthed in order to market to the correct demographic. I think there are too many wild assumptions made (for example, the assumption that poker players are a good target audience, of which I disagree) and not enough real psychological analysis.

In general, the game is very tough to master or even learn at a basic level. (Ever try to explain the difference to a newbie between a NW1X and an OPC75NW3L)? It is also slow with much dead air between races, difficult to follow during the race without vivid presentation and mostly meaningless on a day to day level (meaning the everyday 5k claimer means nothing on the national scene and, except for a gambling venture and to the connections, there is no draw to the average person). The product itself is waning and that doesn't even begin to incorporate things like high tax hits, illegal drugs and the costly nature of playing (DRF, etc).

[Robert Goren]

Two things; You have to market your product better and you need a better product to market. A side note, the people who bet are your customers and the horsemen are your suppliers and you need to start treat each as what they are. That is the way successful businesses are run. Buy a book on the way Walmart runs their business. You will see you are doing everything ass-backward from the way Walmart does.

[Jeff P]

Here's a link to a previous thread:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...=target+market

In post 60 of that thread I posted an answer to the following question:

"However what exactly is your belief that the horsemen should do?"

Here's a link to the specific post where I gave my answer:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...1&postcount=60

I'm going to repost my answer here in this thread in the event anyone with decision making capacity in racing happens to be reading...

Originally Posted by Cannon shell -
"So they should give it up? I don't understand your logic here. You want me to agree that the racing/breeding/handle ect has fallen well short of what could have been had the money been utilized more efficiently? Ok I'm pretty much on board with that. However what exactly is your belief that the horsemen should do? Should they say screw it this isn't working, give the money back to the politicians to squander? Or what? Horsemen have already seen their cut dipped into twice and know more is coming. You may not agree with their stance but what do you want them to do now at this point? Serious question. And while a takeout cut is the obvious answer, doesn't that cut into the rebates offered by the ADW's as well?"

Referencing the bolded part of the above quote, here's what I think you should do:

Ask yourself the following:

Q. Is the current path you as horsemen have put racing on (through the actions of your horsemen alphabet groups) causing revenue growth, increased market share vs. other forms of gaming, and success as measured by other generally accepted business metrics?
A. No. (Obviously.)

Q. Are there any Fortune 500 companies that have put themselves on a path (through the actions of their management teams) leading to revenue growth, increased market share, and success as measured by other generally accepted business metrics?
A. Yes. (Of course there are.)

Q. Do you (as horsemen) want thoroughbred racing to be on a successful path?
A. If the answer to this question is yes, then it's time to change what you are doing.

If the answer to that last question is yes, then start doing the things successful Fortune 500 companies do that make them successful:

Do market research. If you don't have the expertise in house, hire a reputable consulting firm and ask them to:
* Identify your target markets.
* Identify customer needs and wants within your target markets.
* Identify ways you can INNOVATE to satisfy the customer needs and wants within your target markets.

Finally, this is the MOST IMPORTANT thing you need to do:

ACT! PICK SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS HANDED TO YOU BY YOUR CONSULTING FIRM(S) OR YOUR OWN MARKET RESEARCH AND IMPLEMENT THEM!

Then, track your progress going forward. Monitor your results. Measure incremental changes in revenue brought about by the recommendations that you implemented.

When you see something that you implemented spark new customer interest in your target market(s) and start generating additional revenue and market share for you (the 14% takeout pick5 implemented by Hollywood Park in 2011 would be one such real world example of this) then take the next step:

MAKE YOUR BEST ATTEMPT TO IDENTIFY THE REASONS WHY THE CHANGES THAT YOU IMPLEMENTED ARE WORKING AND IMPLEMENT FURTHER CHANGES THAT YOU (OR YOUR CONSULTING FIRM) BELIEVE WILL WORK FOR THE SAME OR SIMILAR REASONS. (Sadly, California racing to date has willingly failed to take that next step.)

Yes, I know... There's risk involved. But successful Fortune 500 companies get to be successful in the first place because they take the occasional measured risk.

Thoroughbred racing is a business. If you want it to be successful you need to start running it the same way a successful Fortune 500 company would run it.

Anything less than that and you are all but guaranteeing thoroughbred racing remains on its own (self made) downward revenue and declining market share slope.

Jeff Platt
President, HANA
www.horseplayersassociation.org/

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Tara73

1- Lower the Take
2- Rebates For Every Dollar Bet
3- Exchange Wagering

There are a decent amount of bets out there with a 14% take, pick 5s at major venues and a few other assorted low rakes (Superfectas at Meadowlands i believe are 15% and the Big M opens Saturday for harness racing) and i think win bets in NY and So Cal are somewhat low, in the 15% range.

As far as rebates go, there are rebate programs called rewards clubs, many tracks have them now and there's a sliding scale of rebates for every dollar bet, so rebates are available, you just have to do a little leg work to find them.

I agree with you on exchange wagering, it can't get here soon enough.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Here's a link to a previous thread:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...=target+market

In post 60 of that thread I posted an answer to the following question:

"However what exactly is your belief that the horsemen should do?"

Here's a link to the specific post where I gave my answer:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...1&postcount=60

I'm going to repost my answer here in this thread in the event anyone with decision making capacity in racing happens to be reading...


Referencing the bolded part of the above quote, here's what I think you should do:

Ask yourself the following:

Q. Is the current path you as horsemen have put racing on (through the actions of your horsemen alphabet groups) causing revenue growth, increased market share vs. other forms of gaming, and success as measured by other generally accepted business metrics?
A. No. (Obviously.)

Q. Are there any Fortune 500 companies that have put themselves on a path (through the actions of their management teams) leading to revenue growth, increased market share, and success as measured by other generally accepted business metrics?
A. Yes. (Of course there are.)

Q. Do you (as horsemen) want thoroughbred racing to be on a successful path?
A. If the answer to this question is yes, then it's time to change what you are doing.

If the answer to that last question is yes, then start doing the things successful Fortune 500 companies do that make them successful:

Do market research. If you don't have the expertise in house, hire a reputable consulting firm and ask them to:
* Identify your target markets.
* Identify customer needs and wants within your target markets.
* Identify ways you can INNOVATE to satisfy the customer needs and wants within your target markets.

Finally, this is the MOST IMPORTANT thing you need to do:

ACT! PICK SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS HANDED TO YOU BY YOUR CONSULTING FIRM(S) OR YOUR OWN MARKET RESEARCH AND IMPLEMENT THEM!

Then, track your progress going forward. Monitor your results. Measure incremental changes in revenue brought about by the recommendations that you implemented.

When you see something that you implemented spark new customer interest in your target market(s) and start generating additional revenue and market share for you (the 14% takeout pick5 implemented by Hollywood Park in 2011 would be one such real world example of this) then take the next step:

MAKE YOUR BEST ATTEMPT TO IDENTIFY THE REASONS WHY THE CHANGES THAT YOU IMPLEMENTED ARE WORKING AND IMPLEMENT FURTHER CHANGES THAT YOU (OR YOUR CONSULTING FIRM) BELIEVE WILL WORK FOR THE SAME OR SIMILAR REASONS. (Sadly, California racing to date has willingly failed to take that next step.)

Yes, I know... There's risk involved. But successful Fortune 500 companies get to be successful in the first place because they take the occasional measured risk.

Thoroughbred racing is a business. If you want it to be successful you need to start running it the same way a successful Fortune 500 company would run it.

Anything less than that and you are all but guaranteeing thoroughbred racing remains on its own (self made) downward revenue and declining market share slope.

Jeff Platt
President, HANA
www.horseplayersassociation.org/

This stuff is all good, but that would require the racing industry to realize its 2013, and i think that's probably too much to ask, you know, the 1970s were berry berry good to them, they don't want to let go.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Valento

My answer: This is in no way disparaging the product they are putting out or the intention they have, but I just don't think it matters. The changes that have to be implemented are too vast and wide reaching.

The following are some examples of what I think might have to be addressed to assist in achieving a new influx of fans and followers:

1. PED'S. The single most destructive thing to hit horse racing is the obvious cheating. It taints the legitimacy of the accomplishments in the game. I have no idea what it would take to catch the cheaters but I just don't think it's a fair fight right now. The chemists are showing up with a missile launcher and the racing industry is bringing a wooden spoon.

2. Tax modification. The current tax laws are old, outdated and absurd. However, the horse racing industry has almost zero pull with legislators and law makers to amend this. Ain't gonna happen.

3. Governing Body. Without a governing body, real collaboration and oversight will never happen and it is sorely missing. Universal drug laws and suspensions are the only chance to start eradicating the habitual drug users. However, there are too many competing interests and agendas at stake to ever give control to one universal figure. Ain't gonna happen.

4. High Definition. The only thing this game really has going for it outside of the core audience is the ambiance of racing. However, this can hardly be relayed to the casual fan in standard definition on a computer screen or even a TV screen. Hell, I can barely tell what number just got up for 2nd. In today's world, imagery is everything. Just look at the advancements in technology in the past 5 years. The product is shown in a very non-appealing format, not to mention the "same saddlecloth colors on big days" absurdity.

5. Lack of Racing Stars. Too many name runners are retired after one year or less in the spotlight, only to be replaced by new names. Thus, the peripheral fan has nothing to "grab" them. The days of horses like Seabiscuit or John Henry are likely over, for the most part. This hurts in attracting fans.

6. Understanding The Audience/Marketing. I am guessing there has never been a study done on what attracts people like me (eat, sleep and shit this game) versus most others that go to the races and don't come back for months or years. There is a certain genetic make-up that hard core horseplayers have. My guess is there are very few of us that don't also love a strategic challenge of data mining and hypothesizing. However, I am sure there are many other underlying traits that we have in common that should be unearthed in order to market to the correct demographic. I think there are too many wild assumptions made (for example, the assumption that poker players are a good target audience, of which I disagree) and not enough real psychological analysis.

In general, the game is very tough to master or even learn at a basic level. (Ever try to explain the difference to a newbie between a NW1X and an OPC75NW3L)? It is also slow with much dead air between races, difficult to follow during the race without vivid presentation and mostly meaningless on a day to day level (meaning the everyday 5k claimer means nothing on the national scene and, except for a gambling venture and to the connections, there is no draw to the average person). The product itself is waning and that doesn't even begin to incorporate things like high tax hits, illegal drugs and the costly nature of playing (DRF, etc).

Great post. Racing loses MILLIONS of dollars just on tax withholdings being held by our Uncle that can't be rechurned into the game. 1% of horseplayers show a profit in the long run, yet 100% of the horseplayers are treated as if they're winners by tax laws. Its a crushing amount of money that "goes away" only to have a large chunk of it returned after a year or a year and a half (or however long it takes for a person to get a refund).

The problem with a "governing body" is that rich track owners have to willingly give up control to a 3rd party and how can you trust that 3rd party to do the right thing? You have 'used car salesmen' running MLB, NFL, NHL and NBA i'm not sure who racing could get as "commissioner" who would do the right things. This goes to show you that big owners such as Stronach, Churchill and the like arent too interested in the health of the GAME, they're interested in themselves...if they really cared about the game and put the game first, they would out front and center leading the charge for a national commissioner to rule the sport with an iron fist and like you say, ain't happening any time soon.

Your comments on PEDs are obviously true, its crippling the game, i think racing needs to find ways to "hurt" the obvious cheaters in a different way because the current way (drug testing that's far behind what the best cheaters are able to pull off) so you need to find a way to get the people who "win too much" to not be able to win as much. There are ways, such as writing things into race conditions that indicate that trainers with x amount of wins....OR, x percentage at the meet, OR, monies won on the year in purses or some other creative ways to keep the cheats out of certain races, and yet, nobody seems to want to be thinking outside the box on this one.

[BlueShoe]

Better food and drink prices at the track. When the walk up concession stand charges more than does just a so so sit down restaurant for bad coffee and blah food, the business model is out of kilter. Squeezing a captive crowd not the way to make friends.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by BlueShoe

Better food and drink prices at the track. When the walk up concession stand charges more than does just a so so sit down restaurant for bad coffee and blah food, the business model is out of kilter. Squeezing a captive crowd not the way to make friends.

Exactly, When in doubt (and even when NOT in doubt), do what Vegas does. Those marble floors and glitzy billion dollar hotels didnt come from thin air, these people know what theyr'e doing. Last i checked, it was free parking and admission to make a horse wager at a sportsbook.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

There are ways, such as writing things into race conditions that indicate that trainers with x amount of wins....OR, x percentage at the meet, OR, monies won on the year in purses or some other creative ways to keep the cheats out of certain races, and yet, nobody seems to want to be thinking outside the box on this one.

Not sure I agree....It might be a slippery slope.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Valento

Not sure I agree....It might be a slippery slope.

Why do you think putting "trainers who are 20% win pct or higher at the current meet, not eligible" is slippery?

Its important that the small fish win on occasion, they need to feel they have SOME shot.

JohnHannibalSmith suggests that there would be a lot of shenanigans with transfering ownership and fake names on the program, and that's certainly a valid concern, but there has to be some way to get a few races anyway where supertrainers are not in those races. Its better for competitive purposes and its ok since you're not singling out anyone by name, you're just saying that if you win a certain percentage at the current meet out of x amount of starters, you arent eligible for certain races.

[Robert Fischer]

I put in some good ideas, but it seems that politics are still one of the major hurdles.

Just have to make do with the reality.

[Some_One]

Originally Posted by Valento

Not sure I agree....It might be a slippery slope.

Why not just get rid of claiming races?

I think North America is only place with these type of races, everywhere else there is an official handicap and horses within a band of ratings are put into a race.

The supertrainers only hang out with the cheap horses and they take advantage of creative race conditions, if you simply say a race is rated for horses 60 to 70, I think you take away a lot of their power.