RIP to Mongolian Groom and CA Racing

[Tom]

I don't really believe our stats, either.
We might be 5X as many - who knows?

Until we have a universal reporting system in place, we will never know.

Apples and oranges.
What if our numbers are higher due to cheap claiming races and winter racing?
Do we close down third rate tacks and rce in warm weather only?

But SAis still all over the riding crops.....so there is hope yet!

[Jeff P]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Who audited the stats for any country? I don't know...do you?

Who audits any of these statistics? Who knows how accurate ANY of them are....are you serious?

I don't accept any of these stats at face value. For all I know, US could be 10x worse than any other nation...or 100x worse...or 100x better.

I doubt a country like Hong Kong's #1 priority is to make sure dead racehorses are counted accurately...

That's a fair question Mike.

In the past I've actually generated my own North American stats using charts data.

The key data points are the total number of starters and horses that failed to finish a race.

From there, using a combination of video replay and chartcaller comments, it's pretty easy to eliminate those that failed to finish a race from causes like stumbled start/lost rider, saddle slipped, clipped heels, or tripped over fallen foe, etc.

At that point about 98.5% of those remaining failed to finish their race because they broke down.

From there, I ran follow up queries (by horsename) to eliminate those that actually came back to race again.

When I was done, I didn't have a count of actual fatalities. But it was close.

Having done that for North American thoroughbred racing I can say without hesitation that I think the reported number (1.61) is accurate.

If, and that's a big if, the numbers reported by Hong Kong, Britain, and Japan were materially understated:

It wouldn't be a difficult thing for a player armed with results data to know.


-jp

.

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by Tom

I don't really believe our stats, either.
We might be 5X as many - who knows?

Until we have a universal reporting system in place, we will never know.

Apples and oranges.
What if our numbers are higher due to cheap claiming races and winter racing?
Do we close down third rate tacks and rce in warm weather only?

But SAis still all over the riding crops.....so there is hope yet!

Indiana Grand has one of the best records (of those publicly available) with a blended 10 year rate of 1.23 versus Santa Anita's 2.22. I'm thinking some top tier tracks have more work to do that some of the less prestigious ones.

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Lying?

So you're now saying Bloodhorse has some sort of agenda for publishing false or uncorroborated information? B.S.

If you would have been actually following live HK racing for the past 5 years as I have, you would see just how foolish your comment is. I can't even recall the last time I witnessed a serious incident and a horse having to be put down.

Anyone who thinks the cause of horse racing fatalities here in the U.S. is related exclusively to track surfaces is in complete denial. Its so obvious that drugs have been creating these problems.

When we had drug restrictions the horses were not only running faster and more consistent, they were running much more frequently and the fields were larger. I recall when handicapping years ago that when horses returned to race in 14 days or less it was a very positive sign. Investigate what the average time between races is these days. It's a joke only because it typically takes 2 weeks or more for horses running on Lasix to replenish the fluids lost.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Nitro

So you're now saying Bloodhorse has some sort of agenda for publishing false or uncorroborated information? B.S.

If you would have been actually following live HK racing for the past 5 years as I have, you would see just how foolish your comment is. I can't even recall the last time I witnessed a serious incident and a horse having to be put down.

Anyone who thinks the cause of horse racing fatalities here in the U.S. is related exclusively to track surfaces is in complete denial. Its so obvious that drugs have been creating these problems.

When we had drug restrictions the horses were not only running faster and more consistent, they were running much more frequently and the fields were larger. I recall when handicapping years ago that when horses returned to race in 14 days or less it was a very positive sign. Investigate what the average time between races is these days. It's a joke only because it typically takes 2 weeks or more for horses running on Lasix to replenish the fluids lost.

Shouldn't you be in Hong Kong protesting in the streets?

[ctownraces@bp]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Shouldn't you be in Hong Kong protesting in the streets?

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Shouldn't you be in Hong Kong protesting in the streets?

Why? You have something against Democracy?

If you opened your eyes and actually read the entire thread you might notice that are many comments (other than mine) about HK racing, including the Bloodhorse link.

Why not try and post some positive aspects of NYRA racing? I'm sure you can find at least one.

Otherwise you can just keep on trolling along. Your comments are certainly contributing so much to this thread.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Nitro

So you're now saying Bloodhorse has some sort of agenda for publishing false or uncorroborated information? B.S.

Why would I ever say anything so downright foolish? I said nothing about Bloodhorse and never would in this instance. They are merely reporting the figures at their disposal. It is the figures themselves I am rightfully questioning.

Neither you or anyone else can tell me how those figures were compiled and by whom. And there would be PLENTY of motivation to bring down the "official numbers" should they prove to be a little higher than they "should" be.

As for you hardly ever seeing a horse break down, then that proves my point right there. Hong Kong's numbers are inflated...LMAO

[bob60566]

Grab coffee for long read.

“We Have Met the Enemy and It Is Us”

A few years ago trainer Jeff Mullins said something to the effect of anyone who bets horses is a fool as they will never know all that goes on back here.


https://pastthewire.com/we-have-met-...-and-it-is-us/

[thaskalos]

[https://pastthewire.com/we-have-met-...-and-it-is-us/]

HIRE THIS MAN!!

[Redboard]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

[https://pastthewire.com/we-have-met-...-and-it-is-us/]

Greg Kelka wrote:

Recently Donna Brothers wrote an article principally about PETA and what a horrible organization they are. The article has been heralded and called a life saving article for racing. Exactly what needed to be said. Brilliant. Stupendous. Eclipse worthy.

Life saving? C'mon, did anyone seriously believe that Brothers article was going to do this? Post pictures of your horse on facebook and all racing problems would go away?

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by bob60566

Grab coffee for long read.

“We Have Met the Enemy and It Is Us”

A few years ago trainer Jeff Mullins said something to the effect of anyone who bets horses is a fool as they will never know all that goes on back here.


https://pastthewire.com/we-have-met-...-and-it-is-us/

What I've always said. Transparency is needed for the bettors. Unless you have access to a horse's veterinary records (as all bettors should) then you are putting your money down on an unknown entity. If you don't know the horse has been shockwaved, pin-fired, etc.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Redboard

Greg Kelka wrote:

Recently Donna Brothers wrote an article principally about PETA and what a horrible organization they are. The article has been heralded and called a life saving article for racing. Exactly what needed to be said. Brilliant. Stupendous. Eclipse worthy.

Life saving? C'mon, did anyone seriously believe that Brothers article was going to do this? Post pictures of your horse on facebook and all racing problems would go away?

My thoughts exactly and what I said earlier.

PETA is accused of "doing nothing by actions to actually help animals because all they do is wag their tongues". (which is true).

So the suggested antidote to that is to do nothing by actions, except wag our tongues, in order to fight PETA? To launch a PR campaign strictly based on words and cute photos? Makes no sense. Words are a good precursor to ideas, but the ideas have to be put into practice. That requires actions.

If you show a photo of yourself lovin' on your horse, then show what actions you are taking to affect change in the industry to keep horses from descending to the lowest level of claiming races, earning them a subsequent boarding pass on the backside meat truck.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by bob60566

Grab coffee for long read.

“We Have Met the Enemy and It Is Us”

A few years ago trainer Jeff Mullins said something to the effect of anyone who bets horses is a fool as they will never know all that goes on back here.


https://pastthewire.com/we-have-met-...-and-it-is-us/

The author nailed it.

The participants are the problem, and only by them changing the way they conduct this game will it have any chance of surviving another 20 years.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

The author nailed it.

Wait for it. I'm sure he will be called a PETA person. It has already come up in one topic here, that PETA *plants* often pose as facing fans.

"My love for animals and devotion to rescue has had me conflicted about the sport I grew up around and have loved my entire life. I fail to understand how any true lover of horses and animals fails to feel the same way."