Finley: A Long Winter At Aqueduct

[Augenj]

What Bill Finley says in this article makes sense to me. Tell me where I'm wrong.
A Long Winter At Aqueduct

[Clocker]

He doesn't mention the handle. What has happened to that over the last few years?

Especially for a non-New Yorker with ADW access, NY in the winter doesn't make sense. I don't remember the last time I played it in cold weather. Handicapping a card the night before and then having it canceled is a big pain. Small fields generally mean shorter odds. And I find it hard to imagine either raw data or speed and pace figures can be comparable when track conditions change from hour to hour.

[burnsy]

Its been that way for years. I agree with him and have not bet more than 5 races at Aqueduct this year. Years ago I liked the meet but its a sad shell of what it was. I don't know about Thanksgiving like he says but by Christmas they should think about a couple months off. They end up cancelling once or twice a week anyway and the racing is hardly NYRA standards........it is Finger Lake esque. That's not a controversial statement at all. Just look at those fields.

[WJ47]

Buddy Jacobson (David Jacobson's father) was one of the first people to push for winter racing in New York.

I personally never even look at the Aqueduct forms in the winter anymore. I used to make money with Aqueduct, but I grew tired of spending 6 or 7 hours handicapping the form and have racing cancelled. Now I just bet the Southern California tracks in the winter. I'm eagerly waiting for Belmont!

I live in Buffalo and the winter has been horrendous. I'm surprised that they haven't cancelled more days at Aqueduct this year.

[Augenj]

I was just wondering about whether I should bother with the inner track next year. Maybe it will be gone anyhow. Like somebody said, extend the outer track a month on each end towards the winter and take a break during the worst of the winter.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by WJ47

Buddy Jacobson (David Jacobson's father) was one of the first people to push for winter racing in New York.

I personally never even look at the Aqueduct forms in the winter anymore. I used to make money with Aqueduct, but I grew tired of spending 6 or 7 hours handicapping the form and have racing cancelled. Now I just bet the Southern California tracks in the winter. I'm eagerly waiting for Belmont!

I live in Buffalo and the winter has been horrendous. I'm surprised that they haven't cancelled more days at Aqueduct this year.

Some tracks "Man up" and some don't. After a while, you get to know which tracks are "soft" and which tracks try like heck to not have to cancel. That can save you some time handicapping.....tracks like Parx and Aqu i don't handicap because i know they'll probably cancel, if i see them racing, i'm shocked and try and just make spot plays....the constant cancelling costs them handle on the days they do race becuase nobody can trust them to race, so you can't spend all this time handicapping the night before and if you don't spend time handicapping, its hard to sink your normal daily handle into their race card if they do decide to give it a go.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by Augenj

What Bill Finley says in this article makes sense to me. Tell me where I'm wrong.
A Long Winter At Aqueduct

I might be in the minority, but I vehemently AGREE with Finley; do away with winter racing at Aqueduct.

I don't go to Aqueduct anymore even though it was the first NYRA racetrack I attended as a youngster and where I had my photo taken with the mighty Forego in the winners' circle.

[Tom]

Why do you feel obligated to play there?
If Aqu were closed, you would have the same other tracks to play as you do today.

Just play them now.
Some people love the inner - why make them pay for no reason?

[VeryOldMan]

Originally Posted by Cratos

I might be in the minority, but I vehemently AGREE with Finley; do away with winter racing at Aqueduct.

I don't go to Aqueduct anymore even though it was the first NYRA racetrack I attended as a youngster and where I had my photo taken with the mighty Forego in the winners' circle.

Count me in, Cratos.

This sport desperately needs contraction on the live racing front, in my view. Even on this board - what percentage of our handle is actually on track versus remote? What's the over/under - 15%? My suspicious is to take the under, but I'd be curious about the more active players here because I'm just not that active.

The mighty Forego is my all-time favorite - I'm envious

[Robert Fischer]

I would to see an intelligent approach to CONTINUE WINTER RACING IN NEW YORK.

• Adjust the incentives regarding claiming race entries.
• Improve the vet-exam efficacy.
• Apply fundamental common sense safeguards and review of entries.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

I would to see an intelligent approach to CONTINUE WINTER RACING IN NEW YORK.

• Adjust the incentives regarding claiming race entries.
• Improve the vet-exam efficacy.
• Apply fundamental common sense safeguards and review of entries.

I agree with your list and the idea of intelligent discussion about this. There's too much knee jerk stuff blaming surfaces and cold weather for injuries.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Cratos

I might be in the minority, but I vehemently AGREE with Finley; do away with winter racing at Aqueduct.

I don't go to Aqueduct anymore even though it was the first NYRA racetrack I attended as a youngster and where I had my photo taken with the mighty Forego in the winners' circle.

AQU meet has historically been the most profitable to NYRA (sans slots of course).

[westny]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

AQU meet has historically been the most profitable to NYRA (sans slots of course).

Of course. All the "expert handicapper " miss the business side of racing...Aquduct handle has in from 4.5M to 6.5M a day. After SA's handle Aqueduct inner is second in the winter.

What about PARX and Laurel mentioned here...they don't race in the winter
PARX cancels as much as AQU PA isn't FL. and neither is MD...last I looked.

Oh, Laurel... http://www.laurelpark.com/ cancels FRI. Didn't Oaklawn cancel this week.

So, according to that hack, Findley, Aqueduct should close...why becasue the weather is bad some days ?

Look at the nags running at Gulfstream during the week...purses of 18k for 12k claiming..7,7,8,8, entries before scratches in the land of "sunshine"

AQU 6,7,7,8 for today's cancel card. BIG DIFFERENCE

The proposition from hacks like Findley to close AQU is plain stupid. The operating costs at AQU are minimal compared to Saratoga . AQU underwrites the operating cost of running Saeratoga, a very expensive venue.
As for the quality of winter racing at aqu...you whiners are cluless. Except for turf racing/stakes at Gulf...those races are lousy, cheap claiming races.
same as most of the rest of tracks in the US.

AQU always gets smeared becasue of "breakdowns" No doubt, too many this year. But no one EVER tracks fatalities and breakdowns at PARX,
Laurel, MTN and all those other podunk tracks...including Gulfstream..never seen a breakdown list for Gulfstream...the track where a horse's leg was cut off to hide evidence of nerving snd the track "didn't know".

At the very least, NYRA now seriously has rules to curtail potential breakdown situations and fatalities. Name one other track with those rules.
AQU is enforcing them.

i remember AQU races in 1999-2003 with 4 horse fields and 10k purses. The comparison to the quality of racing then vs generally now at aqu is so much better. And before anyone carps about the purses, it costs 40k a year to stable a horse in NY...do the math all you "experts". bigger purses have improved the quality, in general. always exceptions.
Gulf horses coming to Aqu generally do not win.

So, NYRA should give up approx 40 days of 5 million a day in handle---200 million... because "it is cold some days and they have to cancel racing" and too many horse breakdowns this year?
200 million in handle that Aqu grosses that goes to other cold weather competitors tracks that stay open...becasue ...why? That hack Findley says so... along with other dolts

[RXB]

Originally Posted by westny

AQU always gets smeared becasue of "breakdowns" No doubt, too many this year. But no one EVER tracks fatalities and breakdowns at PARX,
Laurel, MTN and all those other podunk tracks...including Gulfstream..never seen a breakdown list for Gulfstream...the track where a horse's leg was cut off to hide evidence of nerving snd the track "didn't know".

All of the Magna tracks-- that would include Gulfstream and Laurel-- make their fatality statistics available to the Jockey Club's database.

[NY BRED]

Bill is spot on. The Big A should be closed during the winter months,
and, possibly. permanently.

In turn, the simple solution is to enclose the Belmont grandstand
so that NY could host the Breeders Cup, which will never be the case
with AQU running in November. Thereafter, I would support Bill's
thought to end winter racing.

For those questioning these thoughts check Gulfstream and note
the trainers and Jocks situated in Florida as against who
remain in NY.

The jump in thoroughbred fatalities doesn't include injuries to
Jockeys , which is another reason to consider eliminating
the winter meet at Aqueduct.