The DQ (or non-DQ) complaint thread

[cj]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

How about for starters, getting a direct headon at Belmont for the turf races.

Saratoga? The one I saw the other day is pretty skewed.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

You think not a single person following the races thought the horse was taken down because they wanted to put up Pletcher and stick it to RRR? Not a single horseplayer thought this?

I guess you are ok with ignoring the main point of my reply.

I'm sure plenty of people thought that.

They just didn't think it was because of RACISM.

You're telling me if RRR was the same trainer, except he was a white man of non-Latin descent, and Pletcher was exactly the same in every respect, the outcome would have been different?

[cj]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

You think not a single person following the races thought the horse was taken down because they wanted to put up Pletcher and stick it to RRR? Not a single horseplayer thought this?

I'm with PA on this one. You see it all on Twitter, from perfectly reasonable people to total whack jobs, and not a single person mentioned racism as the reason for the DQ.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by cj

Saratoga? The one I saw the other day is pretty skewed.

Maybe, I haven't seen any Saratoga races so I don't know what they're using for a 'headon'

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I guess you are ok with ignoring the main point of my reply.

I'm sure plenty of people thought that.

They just didn't think it was because of RACISM.

You're telling me if RRR was the same trainer, except he was a white man of non-Latin descent, and Pletcher was exactly the same in every respect, the outcome would have been different?

I think you ignored my reply too. All I'm talking about is whether or not there was some kind of bias towards sticking it to RRR for one reason or another. I agree that I haven't heard anything about racism and whn dubb mentioned it I was surprised because I hadn't heard that before.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I think you ignored my reply too. All I'm talking about is whether or not there was some kind of bias towards sticking it to RRR for one reason or another. I agree that I haven't heard anything about racism and whn dubb mentioned it I was surprised because I hadn't heard that before.

I would take a wild guess and say most people didn't view it as "sticking it" to RRR...although RRR doesn't exactly have a stellar record when it comes to following the rules...

My guess is that most of the folks who harbor a conspiracy theory when it comes to the results of the Sanford think it had more to do with Pletcher favoritism rather than "sticking it to Rudy." But maybe it's a little bit of both...but they're not sticking it to Rudy because he's Mexican.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I would take a wild guess and say most people didn't view it as "sticking it" to RRR...although RRR doesn't exactly have a stellar record when it comes to following the rules...

My guess is that most of the folks who harbor a conspiracy theory when it comes to the results of the Sanford think it had more to do with Pletcher favoritism rather than "sticking it to Rudy." But maybe it's a little bit of both...but they're not sticking it to Rudy because he's Mexican.

I agree.

[Robert Fischer]

Can I get Shore Runner in the 7th??

[cutchemist42]

Mike Adams ‏@GateToWire 9m9 minutes ago
Hilarious. It's a DQ one day but not the next? I know. The best horse gets to foul whoever they want. Cmon they were the best horse

At work so cant watch, was it equal? Thats my bigger problem with the stewards is when very similar events get DQd or not.

[SuperPickle]

I'm sure reasonable people can find yesterday's DQ wrong but that doesn't make it a reasonable response. Reasonable people are very capable of being unreasonable. If someone thought yesterday was some injustice might I suggest the lottery.

In terms of Dubb's comments what I don't get is, the Mexican part aside because that's crazy town, what evidence does he or anyone have to cite that Pletcher is some favorite son? It's not like he hasn't had violations and suspensions. There's zero evidence to cite the rules are different for Pletcher. It's just a fun shot to take when you are the losing end.

Couple with that was one of the worst DQ's of the spring was of a Chad Brown horse it's hard to walk the dog on the "different rules for different trainers."

I've been involved in the sport for over 30 years. Never once have I thought the stewards favored a trainer over another in inquiries. And that's even including the times I've seen stewards blink the number of the horse owned the track they were sitting in. I've seen Charles Cella horses DQed at Oaklawn.

However I do think in inquiries and objections who the jockey is carries some weight. I think if Castellano or Johnny V. are in a spot against say Eric Cancel the stewards are much more likely to believe a guy with 30 years riding experience over a newer jockey. Part of objections are he said/she said. The camera never tells 100% of the story.

[alf1380]

Originally Posted by SuperPickle

I'm sure reasonable people can find yesterday's DQ wrong but that doesn't make it a reasonable response. Reasonable people are very capable of being unreasonable. If someone thought yesterday was some injustice might I suggest the lottery.

In terms of Dubb's comments what I don't get is, the Mexican part aside because that's crazy town, what evidence does he or anyone have to cite that Pletcher is some favorite son? It's not like he hasn't had violations and suspensions. There's zero evidence to cite the rules are different for Pletcher. It's just a fun shot to take when you are the losing end.

Couple with that was one of the worst DQ's of the spring was of a Chad Brown horse it's hard to walk the dog on the "different rules for different trainers."

I've been involved in the sport for over 30 years. Never once have I thought the stewards favored a trainer over another in inquiries. And that's even including the times I've seen stewards blink the number of the horse owned the track they were sitting in. I've seen Charles Cella horses DQed at Oaklawn.

However I do think in inquiries and objections who the jockey is carries some weight. I think if Castellano or Johnny V. are in a spot against say Eric Cancel the stewards are much more likely to believe a guy with 30 years riding experience over a newer jockey. Part of objections are he said/she said. The camera never tells 100% of the story.

Again..a qualifier..I now know that this DQ cost me a couple of Thousand dollars. So I think I have a little credibility here. It was the consummate DQ, and well deserved. DON'T FOUL!

What I take issue with is TVG's blatantly irresponsible cheerleading for taking down the 8, and the general push polling approach by many on track, on air, and those with a platform (looking at YOU DRF) that attempt to influence the outcome of the inquiry.

This happens all the time here in Gulfstream, and Todd Pletcher is infamous for throwing his weight around here. The two trainers ON TRACK, making a spectacle of the inquiry and demonstrably voicing their opinion is BS.

This is what lends to the "Let's make the 4/5 people happy" conspiracy theories.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by SuperPickle

I'm sure reasonable people can find yesterday's DQ wrong but that doesn't make it a reasonable response. Reasonable people are very capable of being unreasonable. If someone thought yesterday was some injustice might I suggest the lottery.

In terms of Dubb's comments what I don't get is, the Mexican part aside because that's crazy town, what evidence does he or anyone have to cite that Pletcher is some favorite son? It's not like he hasn't had violations and suspensions. There's zero evidence to cite the rules are different for Pletcher. It's just a fun shot to take when you are the losing end.

Couple with that was one of the worst DQ's of the spring was of a Chad Brown horse it's hard to walk the dog on the "different rules for different trainers."

I've been involved in the sport for over 30 years. Never once have I thought the stewards favored a trainer over another in inquiries. And that's even including the times I've seen stewards blink the number of the horse owned the track they were sitting in. I've seen Charles Cella horses DQed at Oaklawn.

However I do think in inquiries and objections who the jockey is carries some weight. I think if Castellano or Johnny V. are in a spot against say Eric Cancel the stewards are much more likely to believe a guy with 30 years riding experience over a newer jockey. Part of objections are he said/she said. The camera never tells 100% of the story.

The evidence people are using are the DQs that favor him, what other evidence do you need? Wasn't there a big race in Florida where Pletcher got placed ahead of violette? The evidence is in the results, that's the only evidence you need. As far as the argument that its a small sample and could be coincidental, we all can believe what we want to believe.

As far as certain jocks with experience getting benefits of the doubt, this is one of the strong reasons for a DQless system, it takes out bias and human element out of the results. If these judges were actual court judges, woud they just be handing out death penalties or life in prison willy nilly and one day murder is the death penalty and the next day it's probation?

[SuperPickle]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

The evidence people are using are the DQs that favor him, what other evidence do you need? Wasn't there a big race in Florida where Pletcher got placed ahead of violette? The evidence is in the results, that's the only evidence you need. As far as the argument that its a small sample and could be coincidental, we all can believe what we want to believe.

As far as certain jocks with experience getting benefits of the doubt, this is one of the strong reasons for a DQless system, it takes out bias and human element out of the results. If these judges were actual court judges, woud they just be handing out death penalties or life in prison willy nilly and one day murder is the death penalty and the next day it's probation?

That's some Oliver Stone level crazy right there. I feel like I'm in a scene from JFK. SRU confess if you are Donald Sutherland.

Have you considered dog racing as a hobby? Or maybe at SRU Downs we combine dog racing with horse racing and go jockey less with no stewards. No humans at all! Load them in gate and let them rip.

[cj]

I"m going to go out on a limb and guess this isn't SuperPickle's first rodeo at PA.

[SuperPickle]

Originally Posted by cj

I"m going to go out on a limb and guess this isn't SuperPickle's first rodeo at PA.

Unfortunately I got to say it is. I also just outed that fact because I just figured out how to hit the quote button after 30 posts. Yeah I'm a newbie. Sorry I wish I could say I'm a reincarnation of some former rascal.

Long time lurker, former front side employee, back stretch fan boy, press box hanger-outer in the mid-atlantic area.

Btw... I love your figures. I'm not the biggest fan of your page layout but the figures are very well done. Even people who don't use them should appreciate the fact you're bringing new technology and innovation to the game which makes people like drf, equibase, and Bris have to raise their game. Competition is good.

Anyone investing in the game deserves an award.