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Old 06-25-2013, 08:42 PM   #1
Stillriledup
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George Zimmerman Trial.

Sorry if there's already a thread on this, i didnt see one.

Anyway, does anyone think his lawyers were geniuses to start the trial the way they did? Tavis Smiley, a book author, thinks no. SRU, a prolific poster at PA, thinks that there's more to this "strategy" than meets the eye.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillriledup
...SRU, a prolific poster at PA, thinks that there's more to this "strategy" than meets the eye.
You'll probably never hear this again and I already regret preparing to type it, but - elaborate on this theory if you will.

Considering the tone of the prosecution's opening, the defense's was laughably pathetic. Unless you're going to tell me he's gunning for a second chance at this verdict based on incompetent representation, I'm not sure what your angle would be.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:31 PM   #3
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They'll need to be geniuses, chances of some type of convicition are very high.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith
You'll probably never hear this again and I already regret preparing to type it, but - elaborate on this theory if you will.

Considering the tone of the prosecution's opening, the defense's was laughably pathetic. Unless you're going to tell me he's gunning for a second chance at this verdict based on incompetent representation, I'm not sure what your angle would be.
Geez, i better take advantage of this moment!

I was thinking about the lawyer trying to act like an ass, so maybe he comes across as unlikeable...which would mean at least some 'dislike' would be transferred towards the lawyer and away from Zimmerman. The other theory would be that they might feel sorry for Zimmerman, even if just a very small subconcious amount, that his lawyer is 'clowing around' at such a very important moment. Ya know, at what point do you start to feel sorry for Zimmerman? (even if its on the smallest scale possible)
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:00 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Geez, i better take advantage of this moment!

I was thinking about the lawyer trying to act like an ass, so maybe he comes across as unlikeable...which would mean at least some 'dislike' would be transferred towards the lawyer and away from Zimmerman. The other theory would be that they might feel sorry for Zimmerman, even if just a very small subconcious amount, that his lawyer is 'clowing around' at such a very important moment. Ya know, at what point do you start to feel sorry for Zimmerman? (even if its on the smallest scale possible)
I'm as much a cynic as about anyone, but the thought of a jury delivering an acquittal in a murder trial because they feel bad for the defendant because he hired a buffoon to defend him when, basically, his life is on the line, is a little much for even me.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:17 AM   #6
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He does not exactly have an ideal client.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:36 AM   #7
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911 recordings

I thought I heard last week that the recordings of the 911 calls could not be used as evidence.
If they are admissible, then the defense has a huge task.

It sure sounds like Trayvon was the one doing the screaming for help before the gun was fired.
Yes, he likely had Zimmerman down at some point with his head on the pavement.
The head injuries to Zimmerman back that up.

But, to shoot the kid?
After he is yelling for help on the ground for some time?
Impossible to justify.....
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:29 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by horses4courses
I thought I heard last week that the recordings of the 911 calls could not be used as evidence.
If they are admissible, then the defense has a huge task.

It sure sounds like Trayvon was the one doing the screaming for help before the gun was fired.
Yes, he likely had Zimmerman down at some point with his head on the pavement.
The head injuries to Zimmerman back that up.

But, to shoot the kid?
After he is yelling for help on the ground for some time?
Impossible to justify.....
your "facts" are a little sketchy in that post. The recordings being played in court are fine. What the judge ruled is that neither side can use experts to claim with authority who made the screams. GZ can do so if he testifies.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:36 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by tucker6
your "facts" are a little sketchy in that post. The recordings being played in court are fine. What the judge ruled is that neither side can use experts to claim with authority who made the screams. GZ can do so if he testifies.
So, it comes down to Zimmerman possibly testifying that he was doing the screaming for help,
or the jury can make up their own minds as to who it was.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:07 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by horses4courses
So, it comes down to Zimmerman possibly testifying that he was doing the screaming for help,
or the jury can make up their own minds as to who it was.
yep. The benefit to GZ testifying is that it "fits" his story that he was being pummeled. If it's GZ's phone, then wouldn't he be the one screaming into it? Makes no logical sense that Martin would be screaming into GZ's phone when all the marks are on GZ. The risk is that he gets cross examined.

Plenty of reasonable doubt on this one IMHO.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:13 AM   #11
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The next question is whether all the 911 calls that Zimmerman made in the past come. From what I heard, there is a lot of them , far more than any other neighborhood watch group.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:40 AM   #12
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It seems to me that it will just come down to the law.

The 911 transcript does not matter whatsoever unless he said something absolutely damning, it doesn't matter if he pursued Martin through the apartment complex in his vehicle, and then went out on foot pursuing him behind and between the buildings.

All he has to do is claim that he felt in imminent danger and that he could not escape with an alternative method.

As long as the prosecutor can not disprove those claims, there really is no case.

I disagree with it, but my logic and emotions(nor America's) should not have any bearing. Let's stick to the literal interpretation of the law.

And if the law has loopholes where a situation like this can legally occur, let's address the law.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goren
The next question is whether all the 911 calls that Zimmerman made in the past come. From what I heard, there is a lot of them , far more than any other neighborhood watch group.
The number of calls can go both ways. It could show that he took his responsibility seriously and communicative with the real authorities. An out of control vigilante neighborhood watch guy would IMHO call less and act more confrontational than GZ did.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith
I'm as much a cynic as about anyone, but the thought of a jury delivering an acquittal in a murder trial because they feel bad for the defendant because he hired a buffoon to defend him when, basically, his life is on the line, is a little much for even me.
Not all juries are smart, maybe they're banking on that. As far as his life being on the line, his life is kinda ruined whether he goes to jail or not, supposedly if he loses, he won't be getting a life sentence as i understand it, maybe 7 years and out in 4 for good behavior? He's still relatively young and still has his whole life ahead of him no matter what happens....but, he's going to have to go out and sort of change his name, get some 'work done' and blend into somewhere far from Florida if he wants to enjoy the rest of his life.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Not all juries are smart, maybe they're banking on that. As far as his life being on the line, his life is kinda ruined whether he goes to...
Most juries are stupid.

If you are banking on that, then stand at the table and bang your fist every chance you get and make a point of taking every opportunity to let the pool know that the client thought he was going to die because of the ruffian black kid. I'm thinking you want them to empathize. From start to finish, sell them on Zimmerman's fear for his life and make them stand in his shoes. Stupid people will probably let any emotion cloud their efforts at interpreting the law.

Insulting the intelligence of the stupid with dopey comedy hour seems like the wrong way to bank on a stupid jury getting to an acquittal. But, what do I know. I can't see the effective "grand strategy" that you do here, but thanks for trying.

As far as his life - yeah, it's on the line. I obviously didn't mean in the sense that he's going away forever or getting capital punishment. I mean, a verdict one-way completely destroys his chances at any sort of life and a verdict the other way only compromises it. He's pretty screwed regardless, but having a jury call you a racist child murderer is going to be tough to overcome inside and outside of the pokey.
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