Del Toga Track Chatter

[Jay Trotter]

DEL TOGA CHALLENGE

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION
ON ANYTHING RELATED TO THE CONTEST

OR

ANY TOPICS RELATED TO
RACING AT DEL MAR & SARATOGA

***

[ten2oneormore]

I have a question about this rule.Maybe I'm missing something obvious.


When playing only one half of the entry and it scratches while the other half remains in as a live runner, contest scoring will be as follows:

(a) If the non-selected entry half finishes 3rd or better. you will receive credit as if you did select the horse.
(b) If the non-selected entry half finishes 4th or worse, your selection will be treated as a "no-play".



Can't someone basically freeroll by waiting for scratches then knowingly select the half of the entry that IS scratched?

[tiger rose]

agree
where in the world can you play half an entry

all or none thats it

[Track Collector]

Originally Posted by tiger rose

agree
where in the world can you play half an entry

all or none thats it

Hello tiger rose,

This is one of those instances where the contest works differently than when you place a real wager. That said, it is not new, and if you go back and read the rules of all the PA contests offered so this year, you will see that it was in effect for a number of them.

I can not speak directly for Jay, but I think the idea here was that quite a few contest participants post their selections ahead of time and are not able to monitor the played race up until post time. The rule was designed to protect players from having the significantly better half of the entry scratched and then being stuck with the half they would not have played if offered as an individual wagering entity.

As an individual player you have the right to choose for yourself which situation (half or both halves of the entry) works best.

This is a contest feature which allows you to have your cake and it it too.


Chris

[Track Collector]

Originally Posted by ten2oneormore

I have a question about this rule.Maybe I'm missing something obvious.


When playing only one half of the entry and it scratches while the other half remains in as a live runner, contest scoring will be as follows:

(a) If the non-selected entry half finishes 3rd or better. you will receive credit as if you did select the horse.
(b) If the non-selected entry half finishes 4th or worse, your selection will be treated as a "no-play".



Can't someone basically freeroll by waiting for scratches then knowingly select the half of the entry that IS scratched?

Hello ten2oneormore,

Yes, technically someone could try to do this, but it would certainly be considered poor sportsmanship.

As indicated in my reply to another question, this rule has been in place for a number of earlier contests, so the "opportunity" to take advantage of it has been there all along. As someone who has essentially scored all the contests all the time, I have observed relatively few scratches of posted selections, and would venture to guess that no one has tried this approach as a regular course of action.

Good sportsmanship has been prevailing, and if this situation were ever suspected, Jay and I would deal with it accordingly.


Chris

[Jay Trotter]

Brisnet.com just upped the anti by adding in $750.00 in matching Twinspires account credits to go along with the cash prizes.

Total Contest value is now $2,030.00.

Thanks Brisnet

[sammy the sage]

Well there is another real life losing angle...that in the way THIS contest is scored...will probably win for fun....however...

Figured someone else would see the flaw as well...or...the rules changed in the middle of the game...which I detest...

So thought I would point it out publically...and get an OFFICIAL ruling ahead of time...

The angle...picking 4/5 or 3/5 shots that will win at a 50% clip...but w/the win bonus...one will get 5/1 on the same in THIS contest...

I don't think that was the intention...either way...should be discussed/addressed...ahead of time...

[pat5336]

Originally Posted by sammy the sage

Well there is another real life losing angle...that in the way THIS contest is scored...will probably win for fun....however...

Figured someone else would see the flaw as well...or...the rules changed in the middle of the game...which I detest...

So thought I would point it out publically...and get an OFFICIAL ruling ahead of time...

The angle...picking 4/5 or 3/5 shots that will win at a 50% clip...but w/the win bonus...one will get 5/1 on the same in THIS contest...

I don't think that was the intention...either way...should be discussed/addressed...ahead of time...

We are at Saratoga and DelMar and I don't know where you get that 4/5 & 3/5 win at 50% maybe 30% if that.............................

[iwearpurple]

Originally Posted by sammy the sage

Well there is another real life losing angle...that in the way THIS contest is scored...will probably win for fun....however...

Figured someone else would see the flaw as well...or...the rules changed in the middle of the game...which I detest...

So thought I would point it out publically...and get an OFFICIAL ruling ahead of time...

The angle...picking 4/5 or 3/5 shots that will win at a 50% clip...but w/the win bonus...one will get 5/1 on the same in THIS contest...

I don't think that was the intention...either way...should be discussed/addressed...ahead of time...

My thought is that this rule was designed to reward those who pick more winners (at the best possible odds), rather than reward those who throw a couple of darts and hit a couple of $100.00 horses, and winning the contest picking only 2 winners.

[Jay Trotter]

Here is the thought process for the design of this contest format......

Contest 3, the Gapfire.com was a straight R.O.I. Contest and in building the PaceAdvantage Challenge Series (P.A.C.S.) we wanted each contest to have a unique format. To tweak this contest we added an "accuracy" component. A while back I requested a database breakdown of the average payouts for Win/Place/Show at Del Mar and Saratoga. The results came back around $13.00/$6.00/$4.00, so we refined that to $12.00/$6.00/$4.00 as the accuracy portion of the scoring to be added to the basic R.O.I..

As this is our first run at this format I have no idea how it will play out. With the P.A.I.H.L. we saw that Season 1 didn't accurately reflect "real life" wagering patterns, so we made what proved to be a great adjustment for Season 2. This contest might require a similar adjustment.

In the meantime, we've come up with a unique format; the rules are written; and obviously players will fairly exploit the rules to give them the best chance to win. I would venture to predict that the winner of this contest won't be the person playing nothing but "chalk", but rather the player to mix in big scores with a high degree of accuracy. Time will tell.

In closing, we attempt to design these contests with the players in mind. Nothing is written in stone that says we can't ammend the rules slightly should we see the need (prior to the start of course).

Share your thoughts and we'll consider what is said.

[Aner]

Many thanks to Twinspires for the huge pot. Now, all I have to do is win.

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

Brisnet.com just upped the anti by adding in $750.00 in matching Twinspires account credits to go along with the cash prizes.

Total Contest value is now $2,030.00.

Thanks Brisnet

[mrhorseplayer]

Another reason Twin Spires is the Cadillac of ADW. Thanks TS for your support

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

Brisnet.com just upped the anti by adding in $750.00 in matching Twinspires account credits to go along with the cash prizes.

Total Contest value is now $2,030.00.

Thanks Brisnet

[Red Knave]

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

ANNOUNCEMENT



Brisnet.com has kindly agreed to sponsor alternate prizes
for those players who are not eligible for Twinspires.com accounts

Those eligible for Twinspires.com accounts will receive
account credits as originally announced

Thanks Brisnet for supporting all the players

***

And, Thanks to Jay (and crew).

Just in case on of us Canucks wins it all.

[Jay Trotter]

Originally Posted by sammy the sage

Well there is another real life losing angle...that in the way THIS contest is scored...will probably win for fun....however...

Figured someone else would see the flaw as well...or...the rules changed in the middle of the game...which I detest...

So thought I would point it out publically...and get an OFFICIAL ruling ahead of time...

The angle...picking 4/5 or 3/5 shots that will win at a 50% clip...but w/the win bonus...one will get 5/1 on the same in THIS contest...

I don't think that was the intention...either way...should be discussed/addressed...ahead of time...

The next post addresses Sammy's concerns. We looked at the situation and agreed that the Accuracy Bonus portion of the scoring was flawed by giving too much weight which would have turned the contest into a chalk picking exercise.

Thanks Sammy and others for your input. It is our goal to always listen to the players to make these contests the best possible.

See next post.

[Jay Trotter]

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

RULE 12 HAS BEEN AMMENDED
TO REDUCE THE ACCURACY BONUS
PORTION OF THE SCORING

12. The ROI will be of the hybrid variety as it will include a bonus based on the finish position of your selection. Bonuses are as follows:
(a) Selection finishes 1st --> Bonus = $5
(b) Selection finishes 2nd --> Bonus = $2
(c) Selection finishes 3rd --> Bonus = $1
(d) Selection finishes 4th or worse --> No Bonus
***Rule 12 Ammended July 15th to reduce Bonus amounts


Reason for the ammendment: With feedback from the players and further reflection by the organizers we realized that the original bonus weights of $12-$6-$4 were much too high and would have turned the contest into a "chalk" picking affair which was not our original intent.