Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Handicapping Discussion


View Poll Results: Should CA be required to post all take out rates at all points where wagers are made?
Yes - put all take out rates out in the open for all to see 28 87.50%
No - the state of California loves the mushroom theory 4 12.50%
Voters: 32. This poll is closed

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 08-27-2010, 01:11 PM   #1
DJofSD
Screw PC
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,728
Should CA have all take out rates openly posted?

Should every bet be labeled as to the takeout cost, or signs be posted at all purchase locations with this information?

I floated the idea recently, I think it was in one of the HANA threads, that in CA, there should be signs posted advertizing the take-out/vig rates for all wagers. It should be posted on all self service machines, within 20 feet of any wagering window and a pop-up on any online platform.

Call it the truth in wagering law.
__________________
Truth sounds like hate to those who hate truth.

Last edited by DJofSD; 08-27-2010 at 01:20 PM.
DJofSD is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 01:25 PM   #2
rwwupl
Registered User
 
rwwupl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJofSD
Should every bet be labeled as to the takeout cost, or signs be posted at all purchase locations with this information?

I floated the idea recently, I think it was in one of the HANA threads, that in CA, there should be signs posted advertizing the take-out/vig rates for all wagers. It should be posted on all self service machines, within 20 feet of any wagering window and a pop-up on any online platform.

Call it the truth in wagering law.

Thanks DJ I was trying to put up a poll on the other side, but I got something wrong and had to delete the thread.

It would be like labels on a can of corn,saying how many calories you are consuming.

I think that would put an end to the foolishness of tiered takeouts and possible rebates, and the racing managers would then be compelled to "compete" in the real world as to the cost of a bet. The cost of a bet would be more consistent and LOWER, if everyone was aware of the cost.

It would put an end to the blind takeout that the racing managers hide behind now and give the public confidence that true transparency and competition has arrived in horse racing.

rwwupl
rwwupl is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 01:29 PM   #3
PhantomOnTour
C'est Tout
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cajunland
Posts: 13,253
They should, but they won't.

They should also have a sign that says: Why are you betting on this poly junk?
__________________
How do I work this?
-David Byrne
PhantomOnTour is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 01:44 PM   #4
mikejlb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: so calif
Posts: 121
The poll is a great idea.

I just found out that HANA has a page on their website that lists all the tracks and appropriate tax rates for WPS and exotics. Anyone that wants to seriously try to make money betting should know the affect of taxes.

What I said about HANA's page takes nothing away from your suggestion. The racing industry has decided that it's easier to squeeze a shrinking customer base for an extra 2% than to promote racing with a goal of raising the handle 2%+... Is there something not logical in that statement? If the tracks chose to shoot a hole in their foot then they should post what they are doing to the sport and take responsibility for ruining it for young people.
mikejlb is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 01:55 PM   #5
andymays
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,908
They should be mandated to put the takeout on each betting slip (ticket).

Good Poll.
andymays is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 01:58 PM   #6
DJofSD
Screw PC
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays
They should be mandated to put the takeout on each betting slip (ticket).

Good Poll.
Yes. IMO, that would not be any different than the line item showing sales tax on your receipt from the store.
__________________
Truth sounds like hate to those who hate truth.

Last edited by DJofSD; 08-27-2010 at 01:59 PM.
DJofSD is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 02:27 PM   #7
Greyfox
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,962
"Comments and Questions"

I haven't answered the poll yet for several reasons.

First of all, I think the poll itself shows the pollster's bias:

Yes - put all take out rates out in the open for all to see
No - the state of California loves the mushroom theory

The nature of comment behind the "No" selection, will automatically discourage respondents to select that option. The results will not be valid, in my opinion.

Secondly, what is the "Motivation" for the poll?
Is it to educate the betting public? If so, why don't most of them already know the current rates?

Is the motivation to drive away customers? Certainly some bettors who don't know the rates would consider lowering their plays or not playing at all.
Is that good for racing?

Thirdly, I'm guessing that the poll question implies that we are all in favor of lower take out rates. If more people knew the rates, more would put pressure on the Administrative types to lower the rates. Ultimately, the tracks would consider lowering their rates.

Sure, I'm in favor of lower track takeout rates, as most of us are here.
I'm also in favor of tracks posting their rates somewhere in the building and on the program. Beyond that is "overkill" and likely a "turn off" to some bettors.
Some of them may walk away and never say why.
Having them "in the face" of the bettor every time he goes to a teller or every time he looks at his ticket is not my idea of an improvement to the game.

I may vote later, but that's what I'm thinking now.
Greyfox is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 02:33 PM   #8
DJofSD
Screw PC
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,728
Sure I'm biased.

Since when is transparancy a bad thing?

Yes, I am for lowering the take out rates. However, the poll and discussions are primarily in response to the pending raise in take out rates. These are two separate but related issues.
__________________
Truth sounds like hate to those who hate truth.
DJofSD is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 03:02 PM   #9
Greyfox
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJofSD
Sure I'm biased.

.
Your poll is obviously going to conclude that voters want the take out rates posted. They should be.
But how and where they are posted is open to debate. Posted as some visitors to this site are suggesting would possibly damage the game.
Greyfox is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 04:29 PM   #10
CBedo
AllAboutTheROE
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,411
So casinos should also post vig rates for very slot machine and table game?

Last time I checked, most companies aren't required to tell you their margin or markup before they sell your a product.
__________________
"No problem can withstand the assault of sustained thinking" -- Voltaire
CBedo is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 04:47 PM   #11
positive4th
Registered User
 
positive4th's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBedo
So casinos should also post vig rates for very slot machine and table game?

Last time I checked, most companies aren't required to tell you their margin or markup before they sell your a product.
I agree.......if you agree to take the bet, I don't think they have to post their mark-up, especially considering that you can get that info from multiple sources online with little to no effort.......I bet in CA regularly and it'd be OK if they posted takeouts on-site, but they don't have to.

+++++ BTW, are there any states that DO post their takeouts on-track?
__________________
I've still not met the man alive who pays the rent at 4/5
positive4th is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 05:06 PM   #12
DeanT
Registered User
 
DeanT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by positive4th
if you agree to take the bet, I don't think they have to post their mark-up, especially considering that you can get that info from multiple sources online with little to no effort..
Ask Bill W about that.

I think getting Obama's personal cell phone number is easier than getting accurate takeout rates for racetracks on the web.
DeanT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 05:06 PM   #13
Hanover1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,137
I agree with the other guy.....a simple yes-no poll would remove politics, and add objectivity, and perhaps elict more response bolstering either side....for my money I cannot see how it would entice a local $2,00 bettor to examine what, if any, good choices are out there in regards to ROI. Seems going the other direction would produce favorable results, but hey, we talkin SoCal here.......
Hanover1 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 05:39 PM   #14
TEJAS KIDD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 374
Someone should do a survey at the racetrack.

Question 1.
Do you know what takeout is?
Question 2
Do you care what takeout is?
Question 3.
Do you know what the takeout is at this racetrack?

A huge majority will answer.
NO NO NO

That's why the tracks have us over a barrel.
The masses don't care.
If you put a slot machine and a racing form in front of a teenager, which do you think he'd go for? What if you told him he has a 5% chance of winning with the slot machine and a 10% chance with the racing form,but he'd have to spend months or years to learn how to read it to become successfull?
I'd bet he'd probably still go for the slot machine.
TEJAS KIDD is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-27-2010, 05:48 PM   #15
Hanover1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEJAS KIDD
Someone should do a survey at the racetrack.

Question 1.
Do you know what takeout is?
Question 2
Do you care what takeout is?
Question 3.
Do you know what the takeout is at this racetrack?

A huge majority will answer.
NO NO NO

That's why the tracks have us over a barrel.
The masses don't care.
If you put a slot machine and a racing form in front of a teenager, which do you think he'd go for? What if you told him he has a 5% chance of winning with the slot machine and a 10% chance with the racing form,but he'd have to spend months or years to learn how to read it to become successfull?
I'd bet he'd probably still go for the slot machine.
The boys had this figured out 25 years ago. That is why those glittery eye candy machines are keeping many tracks on life support, and have them begging for more-see NJ.
Hanover1 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.