What is the deal with the late bets?

[RunDustyRun]

Glad Eddie O mentioned the late changes in the odds...people love to point out the one in four time when late late money gets beat but the reality is late money( past posting money)is ruining the game...

[AltonKelsey]

Sports betting has been legal in England forever, I think they still run horse races over there.

[cj]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

Sports betting has been legal in England forever, I think they still run horse races over there.

They don't run very many and the purses are, to be kind, lacking.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by cj

They don't run very many and the purses are, to be kind, lacking.

And they still have flat odds, right?

However, I don't see all the horse players deserting the ship just because sports betting is legal. Sure, some (more) will, and that is inevitable.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

And they still have flat odds, right?

However, I don't see all the horse players deserting the ship just because sports betting is legal. Sure, some (more) will, and that is inevitable.

Yes, as far as I know. They are definitely available. People are really, really getting fed up with what is perceived as a rigged game right now. The biggest money comes in very late and the people getting it get a much better price. It can't continue this way IMO.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by cj

Yes, as far as I know. They are definitely available. People are really, really getting fed up with what is perceived as a rigged game right now. The biggest money comes in very late and the people getting it get a much better price. It can't continue this way IMO.

CJ,

Of course, you are right.

Very sad state of affairs. And the industry has just done everything to make it worse for the last 25+ years.

[Dave Schwartz]

I've wracked my brain over the past months trying to figure out what racing could do to turn the tide but I just can't see a way out of this mess.

Can anyone else?

Sure, we know the two obvious things...

1. Substantial reduction in takeout.
2. Improve the tote system.

Unfortunately, these two items are both viewed as "cost-without-return" by the race tracks.

Does anyone have any ideas for how those two items could be turned into a positive for the tracks?

[lefty359]

But, I guess it wasn't all for naught. Yes...I may have forgotten the details of a promising handicapping method. But I was reminded of the power of accurate record-keeping...in ALL areas of our life. /thaskolos quote
__________________
Doc Sartin used to say this was a big key to winning. He was right. It has kept me off a lot of losers and led me to several winners.

PA, Mike, write down your parameters for the orig method you started with so you can get back to it if the "tinkering" goes haywire. Like Thaskolos I've lost winning meethods by forgetting my original paramaters.

[lefty359]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

And where you lock in your odds when you place your wager.

Yes, but here's the rub. Sports bookies aren't pari-mutuel so they take risks too. But win too much and your acct will be closed. I've seen it happen more than once here in Vegas.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't buy for a second that sports betting is going to kill racing.

Racing is doing a good enough job on their own...they don't require assistance.

But seriously, not going to happen.

The people losing at racing are just going to go lose at sports. Then what?

[Parkview_Pirate]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I've wracked my brain over the past months trying to figure out what racing could do to turn the tide but I just can't see a way out of this mess.

Can anyone else?

Sure, we know the two obvious things...

1. Substantial reduction in takeout.
2. Improve the tote system.

Unfortunately, these two items are both viewed as "cost-without-return" by the race tracks.

Does anyone have any ideas for how those two items could be turned into a positive for the tracks?

See Hong Kong. Some ideas there.

Reducing takeout and tax breaks for owners. Gambling income should be exempt from taxes for the $100K (no sense giving the whales any more profits).

Even more important (IMHO) than tote issues, is drugs.

Ban all race-day drugs. Period. Tracks should be mandated to test all winners and favorites at a minimum. With no drugs in their systems to mask illegal substances, I would hope testing costs could be reduced.

But at the end of the day, racing is competing against many other distractions for disposable income, and has done such a poor job of recruiting new (and younger) fans, reversing the trend at this point will be be, as the old saying goes, "a tough row to hoe..."

[lefty359]

I agree!, Mike

[Parkview_Pirate]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

...The people losing at racing are just going to go lose at sports. Then what?

The people betting sports, even if they lose, will find their gambling/entertainment dollar going much further on sports betting due to the difference in takeout. Sports betting also will have more fans, allowing sports bettors more people to share the pain and the glory.

One of my horse racing buddies from years gone by (and former owner), still finds himself teased by the promotions offered from casinos, which have become more competitive. His handle on racing is a fraction of what it used to be, while his handle on sports and casino action has maintained about the same level for twenty years now.

The grind downward in racing continues, with predictions from 5, 10 and 20 years ago being right about the trend. It will never completely collapse, but unless the TPTB take substantial action, it won't climb out of the abyss.

Racing has pretty much gone past the Rubicon...

[PaceAdvantage]

Racing is still one of the rare beatable games out there.

I have a hard time believing there are substantially more winning poker or sports bettors as compared to horse bettors.

I know, I know. Conventional wisdom says there MUST BE.

But, I'm not so sure I believe it.

The whales and CRWs are into our game for a reason. And contrary to popular opinion, it's not because they are allowed to cheat. It's because the game is beatable.

I know, there are big sports betting outfits out there...the point remains, horse racing isn't as dead a game as some of you are making it out to be, even in the current environment.

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I've wracked my brain over the past months trying to figure out what racing could do to turn the tide but I just can't see a way out of this mess.

Can anyone else?

Racing could easily solve this late odds changes crisis:


How about we put the public ON the live horses from the very beginning?


Everyone here loves to try to address these minuscule puzzles with their own best interest in mind - and that's the problem.

Once you list the good of all things horse racing as the top priority, the steps to take are crystal clear. And those involve doing something for evvvvveryone (not just you ).

But U.S. horse racing has never undertaken simple steps which entail doing something for everyone in the audience all at once, so why should the industry bother to change its self-destructive ways now?


(envisioning the next tangent idea, featuring a single outcome of chance every 3 hours, toppling horse racing in 6 months is foolish in a world where racing's one chance outcome every 30 or 5 minutes can't make a dent in multiple outcomes every minute)

(gee, maybe in the near future you'll be able to bet on interception! or tipped pass while the ball is in the air... or perhaps on which of Ken Stabler's 15 fumble touches he will actually pick-up and carry)