It's on! The Official Boycott Keeneland Thread.

[NJ Stinks]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Good for you!

Thanks, Ralph.

[NY Racing Fan]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

they are getting their butts kicked, they should be up 10% so this is a substantial amount of loss when you factor that in.

Just need to carry this over in the spring meet and it will send a real message.

I keep asking Jeff from HANA about pushing for an even stronger Keeneland Spring boycott and have yet to hear him respond to it. Again....very disappointed in them.

[Jeff P]

Matt Heggarty's recent DRF article appeared under a headline that reads Keeneland handle declines leveling off:
http://www.drf.com/news/keeneland-ha...lines-leveling

Bob Elliston, Keeneland’s vice president of racing and sales, said Monday that the handle figures do not yet clearly demonstrate that the boycott and lower payouts are having a dramatic impact on handle, noting that of the eight days of the meet so far, four have posted lower handle numbers than the corresponding date last year, three have posted higher handle numbers, and the other was “essentially a wash,” in reference to an insignificant decline on the opening Friday, Oct. 6. On one of the days in which handle was up, Keeneland ran 10 races, rather than nine.

But Thursday's results (down $2M 28.48%) on a day with perfect weather and comparable field size vs. the same Thurs last year were more encouraging - and tell a different story.

I believe we can build on that - by asking players who are currently boycotting to reach out to other players who might not even know there's a boycott.

We're obviously doing some of that.

But if we can do more of that that:

I really think we can have a lot more days like Thursday and convince Keeneland to reverse their decision.

Originally Posted by NY Racing Fan

I keep asking Jeff from HANA about pushing for an even stronger Keeneland Spring boycott and have yet to hear him respond to it. Again....very disappointed in them.

Let me put it this way:

I'm in this for as long as it takes. I haven't bet a dime on Keeneland and I won't until they reverse their decision.

But I'm only as good as the other players supporting this.

Even if we have a lot more days like Thursday between now and the end of the Keeneland meet, there's a very good chance Keeneland will hope players will forget about the boycott between now and next April.

To that end, allow me to float an idea:

There IS another meet immediately following Keeneland.

Churchill.

Remember those guys?

What do other players think about keeping the boycott going once Keeneland ends?



-jp

.

[SandyW]

I'm with you JP, have not and will not place a bet with Churchill or Keeneland this year and will not until they rescind their higher takeout rates.
My daily handle at these tracks has been moved over to more customer friendly race tracks.

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

But Thursday's results (down $2M 28.48%) on a day with perfect weather and comparable field size vs. the same Thurs last year were more encouraging - and tell a different story.



.

ROFL !!

What say you tell the whole story instead of "a different story"


How clueless do you think people are, when buying this stuff, while you compare a day with a carryover of $300K+ to a random and insignificant day perhaps depleted even further by Kee having had a carryover a day before?


You're on your way to getting buried, just as you did with the Canterbury pipe dream despite announcing wild, day-over-day gains of 48% on that first Sunday of the meet while excitedly comparing a sloppy-track day one year with a fast-track corresponding day the next year.

Besides, all that matters in this equation is revenue-from-handle, which you conveniently never dare to report.

Beyond that, how many years has it been at SA...? and you still haven't convinced them to "reverse their decision (to raise takeout)".


You are simply not thinking correctly about this entire equation.

[NY Racing Fan]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Matt Heggarty's recent DRF article appeared under a headline that reads Keeneland handle declines leveling off:
http://www.drf.com/news/keeneland-ha...lines-leveling




But Thursday's results (down $2M 28.48%) on a day with perfect weather and comparable field size vs. the same Thurs last year were more encouraging - and tell a different story.

I believe we can build on that - by asking players who are currently boycotting to reach out to other players who might not even know there's a boycott.

We're obviously doing some of that.

But if we can do more of that that:

I really think we can have a lot more days like Thursday and convince Keeneland to reverse their decision.



Let me put it this way:

I'm in this for as long as it takes. I haven't bet a dime on Keeneland and I won't until they reverse their decision.

But I'm only as good as the other players supporting this.

Even if we have a lot more days like Thursday between now and the end of the Keeneland meet, there's a very good chance Keeneland will hope players will forget about the boycott between now and next April.

To that end, allow me to float an idea:

There IS another meet immediately following Keeneland.

Churchill.

Remember those guys?

What do other players think about keeping the boycott going once Keeneland ends?



-jp

.

I am not saying that I think that continuing the boycott onto Churchill is a bad idea, however, the increase @ Keeneland is new and fresh and when you add additional components to a boycott (Churchill), don't you think it waters down the entire effect? If we keep pounding Keeneland, they have to respond. From my perspective, the numbers coming out of Keeneland this meet confirm that the boycott is indeed working. Personally, I won't bet CHU for the same reasons why I won't be wagering on KEE until reform is made. I just worry about the unity and resolve of the masses.

[NY Racing Fan]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

ROFL !!

What say you tell the whole story instead of "a different story"


How clueless do you think people are, when buying this stuff, while you compare a day with a carryover of $300K+ to a random and insignificant day perhaps depleted even further by Kee having had a carryover a day before?


You're on your way to getting buried, just as you did with the Canterbury pipe dream despite announcing wild, day-over-day gains of 48% on that first Sunday of the meet while excitedly comparing a sloppy-track day one year with a fast-track corresponding day the next year.

Besides, all that matters in this equation is revenue-from-handle, which you conveniently never dare to report.

Beyond that, how many years has it been at SA...? and you still haven't convinced them to "reverse their decision (to raise takeout)".


You are simply not thinking correctly about this entire equation.

Jeff can respond to this better than I can but revenue from handle is a loaded topic. Even if your revenue increases with a decrease in handle because of the takeout increase, it still paints a bad picture of an organization if you are showing declining profit margins from revenue. In addition to that, you are reducing your customer base with the lower handle. It's just a more complicated picture to paint.

Is see your complaints but what are your suggestions?

[Jeff P]

Twitter

-jp

.

__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by NY Racing Fan

Jeff can respond to this better than I can but revenue from handle is a loaded topic. Even if your revenue increases with a decrease in handle because of the takeout increase, it still paints a bad picture of an organization if you are showing declining profit margins from revenue.

"Revenue from handle" is often used when handle goes down, when takeout goes up (mainly from insiders), but yes, it is a really poor way to look at things. It's short term.

Hong Kong - a near monopoly for racing in their jurisdiction - could raise billions in revenue tomorrow by increasing takeout, but they won't. Australia's juice is 10.41% blended. I'm sure they could raise revenue tomorrow by going to 15%. They don't either.

They don't because they know that the short term revenue bump will not continue as their players get ground down over time. The same thing happens here - and has happened for generations. Then they look up one day and see both handle and revenue down, and almost inexplicably wonder what happened. Then, they do the exact same thing over again.

[Jeff P]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

ROFL !!...

You're on your way to getting buried...

Besides, all that matters in this equation is revenue-from-handle, which you conveniently never dare to report...

You are simply not thinking correctly about this entire equation.

Getting buried?... really?

Keeneland during the 1st 10 days of their fall 2017 meet:
http://www.playersboycott.org/kee-si...de-10days.html

Down 8.1M -9.76%

Belmont during the 1st 10 days of Keeneland's fall 2017 meet:
http://www.playersboycott.org/bel-si...de-10days.html

Up 6.6M +8.61%

Santa Anita during the 1st 10 days of Keeneland's fall 2017 meet:
http://www.playersboycott.org/sax-si...de-10days.html

Up 6.1M +11.73%

Total revenue from handle?

The other A tracks are UP an average of 10.1%

I submit to you the idea that Keeneland would be UP a similar amount had they not had a takeout increase.

In absolute terms they are 20% below where they should be.

The takeout increase doesn't make up for that.



-jp

.

[Track Collector]

I see your complaints but what are your suggestions?

I second this.

Sincere question...........do you really care that handicappers have to play into a higher takeout at Keeneland? If yes, then I am sure the HANA would be more than welcome to hear and consider your suggestions. I am sure that their "goal" is not to look good and further personal egos but to help fight and achieve positive changes for the horseplayer. I have spoken to Jeff via phone a number of times and found him to be sincere and very helpful.

Let's see some helpful ideas here, otherwise, what motives do you have for these Keeneland-related postings other than to perhaps let off some steam?

[thaskalos]

Isn't AskinHaskin the guy who keeps telling us that "we and our ilk" are responsible for the state that the game currently finds itself in? Has he ever clarified what he meant by that...even though we have asked him to do so time and again? What makes us think that he'll be any more forthcoming with an explanation this time?

IMO...he is the classic drive-by shooter...who isn't NEARLY as clever as he thinks he is.

[DeanT]

Jerod Dinkin (he presented on the Horseplayer panel at Equestricon) on the boycott and assorted horseplayer issues, if anyone is interested. I think he did a good job, but I'm biased. He's a buddy.

https://5minutestopost.com/2017/10/2...-jerod-dinkin/

He touched a little bit about the KEE action in the interview.

[NY Racing Fan]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Getting buried?... really?

Keeneland during the 1st 10 days of their fall 2017 meet:
http://www.playersboycott.org/kee-si...de-10days.html



Belmont during the 1st 10 days of Keeneland's fall 2017 meet:
http://www.playersboycott.org/bel-si...de-10days.html



Santa Anita during the 1st 10 days of Keeneland's fall 2017 meet:
http://www.playersboycott.org/sax-si...de-10days.html



Total revenue from handle?

The other A tracks are UP an average of 10.1%

I submit to you the idea that Keeneland would be UP a similar amount had they not had a takeout increase.

In absolute terms they are 20% below where they should be.

The takeout increase doesn't make up for that.



-jp

.

The figures are tremendously supportive of the boycott and other ramifications that resulted from the Keeneland takeout increase. HANA definitely deserves some credit and thanks from the horseplayers for the results shown thus far. Just want to see it continue.

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by NY Racing Fan

The figures are tremendously supportive of the boycott and other ramifications that resulted from the Keeneland takeout increase. HANA definitely deserves some credit and thanks from the horseplayers for the results shown thus far. Just want to see it continue.

I second this comment.