Last Judgement in the Pegasus

[the little guy]

More BS about Charlatan. Man is he misunderstood by a lot of people ( and I actually think he's pretty darn good ).

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by zico20

You saw what happened to Nashville when he met quality horses. Charlatan would have run by him on the far turn and Knicks Go would have quit badly.

Knicks Go is probably as good right now as he's ever going to get (which is quite good). I can't see Cox moving him up much further at this age, with this many starts, after having him in the barn for awhile now.

Charlatan is still too lightly raced to know where the top is.

I'd sure like to see that matchup eventually up to a mile.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by zico20

You saw what happened to Nashville when he met quality horses. Charlatan would have run by him on the far turn and Knicks Go would have quit badly.

Nashville was never gonna like the surface out here. He was an easy toss based on having zero experience over it. Most horses coming out here don't like it. Especially in sprints IMO

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Nashville was never gonna like the surface out here. He was an easy toss based on having zero experience over it. Most horses coming out here don't like it. Especially in sprints IMO

IMO, when horses like Nashville and Yaupon get tested by opposition that is just as fast (or faster) and finally get asked for more than they have been to date, they sometimes crack and fall apart, sometimes handle it and run just as fast, and sometimes show there was more speed and stamina in the tank than they revealed to date and run a little faster.

It's hard to know (at least for me) what I am dealing with beforehand. There are mostly just clues.

However, I am certain that figures only tell you how fast a horse ran given his natural ability, the way the surface was playing that day in terms of carrying speed or demanding stamina, and given the fractions, pressure, and position the horse attained in that field on that day. They often don't tell you how good the horse actually is and what will happen when he's tested. Then of course you are also always dealing with accuracy issues.

[Spalding No!]

I'm not writing off Nashville yet (in terms of ability) or taking the Malibu at face value. Horse looked terrible crossing the wire and hasn't worked since (Charlatan has breezed 3 times since).

Could have been put on the shelf with a physical issue.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

I'm not writing off Nashville yet (in terms of ability) or taking the Malibu at face value. Horse looked terrible crossing the wire and hasn't worked since (Charlatan has breezed 3 times since).

Could have been put on the shelf with a physical issue.

You can't write off a horse with that kind of speed based on one bad effort (especially if he's laid off after it), but I'm not assuming he's a killer either just because he ran a few very fast races on surfaces and against fields that may not have tested him adequately. I didn't play against him that day because I wasn't sure what I was dealing with and knew he was faster than Charlatan early. So it wasn't like either was a screaming good value proposition in my mind. But I completely tossed Yaupon in the BC Sprint and I don't think he's terrible either.

[classhandicapper]

It looks like we are going to get that Knicks Go vs. Charlatan matchup in Saudi Arabia. Tacitus will be there too. Maybe Tacitus will get the pace setup he needs and the rest of the field will be of Grade 2 quality and he'll win the "big one".

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

It looks like we are going to get that Knicks Go vs. Charlatan matchup in Saudi Arabia. Tacitus will be there too. Maybe Tacitus will get the pace setup he needs and the rest of the field will be of Grade 2 quality and he'll win the "big one".

I'll take your action on Tacitus.

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

It looks like we are going to get that Knicks Go vs. Charlatan matchup in Saudi Arabia. Tacitus will be there too. Maybe Tacitus will get the pace setup he needs and the rest of the field will be of Grade 2 quality and he'll win the "big one".

I'm sick of racing in Saudi and Dubai. I understand why owners go, but I've completely lost interest for many reasons which I won't get into here.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

I'm not writing off Nashville yet (in terms of ability) or taking the Malibu at face value. Horse looked terrible crossing the wire and hasn't worked since (Charlatan has breezed 3 times since).

Could have been put on the shelf with a physical issue.

So far the Malibu is holding up.
The two that exited have faired well:
Independence Hall ran his best race ever......3rd to Knicks Go in the Pegasus.
Same for Express Train.........Handy score in the San Pasqual.
Flatters Charlatan a bit.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by taxicab

So far the Malibu is holding up.
The two that exited have faired well:
Independence Hall ran his best race ever......3rd to Knicks Go in the Pegasus.
Same for Express Train.........Handy score in the San Pasqual.
Flatters Charlatan a bit.

No surprise those horses are doing well elsewhere. The field from top to bottom in the Malibu was full of talented individuals. I think all but Express Train and Collusion Illusion had triple digit BSF on their resumes and the latter was a Grade 1 winner against his elders earlier in the season.

Express Train hadn't broke through but was well meant as a 2yo, acquitting himself well against Eight Rings and Storm the Court. He beat some salty older horses in his sprint comeback and beat a few more in his second start that saw him just fail behind Extra Hope who won a graded stakes next out. No idea why they tossed him on the grass after that when he was poised to advance to stakes company on dirt.

That said, the Malibu was irrelevant as far as how the race itself played out. Santa Anita's problematic stakes schedule ensured a small field (just 6 horses for a race that historically overfilled with sprinters, routers, comebackers, late bloomers, you name it, in the past). Nashville (no works since) and Thousand Words (retired) didn't show up. Collusion Illusion hasn't worked in nearly a month. Charlatan couldn't have had a softer comeback.

The 2 you mentioned are probably meant for middle distances or more while it is hardly a cinch that Charlatan is the same type of horse around two turns...unless he's handed things on a silver platter. The one turn in Saudi Arabia will probably help but the presence of Knicks Go probably won't.

Beyond that, I'm not holding my breath that Charlatan lasts past the summer.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

No surprise those horses are doing well elsewhere. The field from top to bottom in the Malibu was full of talented individuals. I think all but Express Train and Collusion Illusion had triple digit BSF on their resumes and the latter was a Grade 1 winner against his elders earlier in the season.

Express Train hadn't broke through but was well meant as a 2yo, acquitting himself well against Eight Rings and Storm the Court. He beat some salty older horses in his sprint comeback and beat a few more in his second start that saw him just fail behind Extra Hope who won a graded stakes next out. No idea why they tossed him on the grass after that when he was poised to advance to stakes company on dirt.

That said, the Malibu was irrelevant as far as how the race itself played out. Santa Anita's problematic stakes schedule ensured a small field (just 6 horses for a race that historically overfilled with sprinters, routers, comebackers, late bloomers, you name it, in the past). Nashville (no works since) and Thousand Words (retired) didn't show up. Collusion Illusion hasn't worked in nearly a month. Charlatan couldn't have had a softer comeback.

The 2 you mentioned are probably meant for middle distances or more while it is hardly a cinch that Charlatan is the same type of horse around two turns...unless he's handed things on a silver platter. The one turn in Saudi Arabia will probably help but the presence of Knicks Go probably won't.

Beyond that, I'm not holding my breath that Charlatan lasts past the summer.

The Malibu field was as intriguing before the race as after.
Charlatan: He's built like a quick miler......no clue where he tops out distance wise.........the female side is where he gets his speed from [Fappiano/Appealing Missy/Lypheor].
Sidebar.....two works ago his exercise rider(don't know if it was a jockey or not) made a questionable choice going inside of a wandering horse in the stretch......it was dicey.....real dicey.
Express Train: He's always washy......If he's ever dry he might really blossom.
Now his female side says distance is good [A.P. Indy/Alydar/Slew].......can see him getting real good.
Indepence Hall: I give up trying to figure out anything about this dude.
Collusion Illusion: His Malibu was a nice rebound,he looked good at the wire......Glatt is good off of layoffs.....he'll be sharp when he returns.
Nashville: Asmussen is good stopping on his horses and having them return as good as ever,suspect Nashville will be top quality on his return........yeah.......it feels like he's going to be out for awhile.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

I'm sick of racing in Saudi and Dubai. I understand why owners go, but I've completely lost interest for many reasons which I won't get into here.

Same. And it's expanding to more sports. They are taking over big-time boxing and trying to take over tennis and golf too.

[classhandicapper]

Charlatan may be mildly suspect at 9F under quality pressure, but he also may be a step quicker than Knicks Go early. We also know that Baffert likes to send his speed horses and put away the chasers when he can. Knicks Go is a new horse, but it's not like he has proven he can sit off anther quality speed horse and finish well going long. If Charlatan is sent hard and proves to be faster than Knicks Go early, this pace could get very fast or at least make the race very interesting in terms finding out just how good they both are.

[BarchCapper]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Same. And it's expanding to more sports. They are taking over big-time boxing and trying to take over tennis and golf too.

Any sheikh that wants to take CDI private and run it as a racetrack company that happens to have casinos will instantly be my favorite person in racing.