Religion II

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Evidently, you didn't read my 3477 that dealt with God's curse upon the entire creation? All that is evil in the world, i.e. not good in the broadest sense possible, is caused by Adam and Eve's sin.

Cancer can be cured. Episodes of schizophrenia can be prevented with antipsychotic drugs. Ergo, sin can be cured.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Evidently, you didn't read my 3477 ...

As regards my #2746 there are three possibilities.

• You did not read it.
• You read it but did not understand it.
• I made such a convincing case that you cannot refute it.

#1 being the most probable of course.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Cancer can be cured. Episodes of schizophrenia can be prevented with antipsychotic drugs. Ergo, sin can be cured.

Tell me that after they can prevent or find a cure for death.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

As regards my #2746 there are three possibilities.

• You did not read it.
• You read it but did not understand it.
• I made such a convincing case that you cannot refute it.

#1 being the most probable of course.

You could well be right, especially since we both know option 3 is about as viable and likely occurrence as the sun rising in the west tomorrow morning.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

That is also open to interpretation. Everyone but you knows humans do not grow, mentally, emotionally or spiritually without challenges. That is why a flower dies in this world even though we love it and a weed grows even though we don't. The world is our teacher. It cannot teach us unless we face the challenges it has. There is nothing cursed about that, unless you look at growth as a curse.

Genesis and the rest of the bible says it, which is God's Word, so I believe it. Not surprising you don't.

Also, it appears you'd be bored stiff in the visible, physical eternal kingdom of God; for in heaven there is no more curse, which means all the "challenges" that are the consequence of sin that we experience in the here are now won't be present in heaven. How would you be able to cope for all eternity?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Tell me that after they can prevent or find a cure for death.

No need. We can find the evil gene and eradicate it then everybody can go to heaven. Problem solved.

We can turn ourselves into GMOs with "believe anything, without evidence, no matter how stupid" built right in.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Because the serpent is part of creation and God cursed all creation.

You are confusing Noah with Adam.
God did not curse "creation. He kicked his children out of paradise.

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Ede.

Nothing about punishing or cursing all of creation. Nor snakes.

Satan possessed the snake, and the snake got the curse of original crawl, It was satan's fault. Not the snakes

[hcap]

A

Originally Posted by boxcar

lso, FYI, Satan who possessed the Serpent (who later became a snake) has no genes 'cause the devil is a spirit being.

But snakes have to have the "crawl gene" in order to make all them little snakes crawl for ever and ever in perpetuity.

[hcap]

The literal interpretation of genesis is for lunatics.....

http://www.losingmyreligion.com/arch...absurdity.html

Did God know Eve would eat the fruit? Of course He did! We are told by the bible that God knows all things from the Beginning unto the End. Did He not know Eve would give it to Adam? Of course He did. Did He not know that the serpent would tempt Eve? He did, if we are to accept the bible. Therefore, did Eve have any free will in the matter? Could she have acted in a manner other than God had foreseen for her? Of course not! How could she? How was the serpent able to speak? Did it give itself this remarkable ability? How does the mouth of a snake, with no lips or proper teeth, and no articulate tongue, form human words? How did the tiny brain of a snake become wise and subtle? Who made it so? Who was responsible for putting the principle actors-- Adam, Eve, the serpent and the Tree-- all together in the Garden of Eden? God, of course.

The inescapable conclusion? That He put all the pieces on the game board, and enacted His own little drama, resulting in the deliberate, eternal damnation of Humankind.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

No need. We can find the evil gene and eradicate it then everybody can go to heaven. Problem solved.

We can turn ourselves into GMOs with "believe anything, without evidence, no matter how stupid" built right in.

YOU have already arrived at the "GMO believe anything" state since you think you can find and eradicate the evil gene, hence death itself. How long have you been smoking the "evil" weed?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

ABut snakes have to have the "crawl gene" in order to make all them little snakes crawl for ever and ever in perpetuity.

Of course, there were profound biological changes to the Serpent.

Don't know if you remember this or not (probably not) but several years ago there was a gal (whose handle escapes me) who popped into the old Religious thread for a short spell. At that time a discussion about the Fall and it consequences was underway and she mistakenly thought that the Serpent was always a belly-crawlin' snake. But of course I corrected her by showing her the scripture that supported my interpretation. She disappeared for 2 or 3 weeks then came back to post that I was indeed right and that biology itself supports what Genesis said about the curse of the Serpent because she came to find out (online I suppose) that snakes' bodies have two appendages running part way down them. Kool, huh?

[hcap]

You told us satan possessed the serpent and then the serpent was turned int a snake. Who cares? The question is why would a just god punish that poor innocent of tempting Eve creature. You claimed your god cursed (punished) all of creation and that's why the snake had to suffer.

Where does genesis say all of creation was cursed? It does say god cursed the ground speaking to Adam. But no creatures other than the serpent aka satan, were cursed. No snakes.

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

...Genesis 3:17

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You are confusing Noah with Adam.
God did not curse "creation. He kicked his children out of paradise.
Nothing about punishing or cursing all of creation. Nor snakes.

Satan possessed the snake, and the snake got the curse of original crawl, It was satan's fault. Not the snakes

You are one stubborn, obstinate dude! Go back and read my 3477 which is very well supported from the post-Fall account in Genesis.

You question why the Serpent was cursed!? Seriously? If you remove your self-imposed, anti-God, anti-supernatural presuppositional blinders and read the above post and the Genesis record carefully you'll find that all animals fell under the curse, for the pertinent text says that the Serpent was cursed above them all.

Adam and Eve's sin brought God's curse upon the entire creation -- indeed impacted every aspect of life -- beginning first and foremost with the vertical relationship between God and man and the horizontal relationship among human beings. It is no accident that the Two Greatest Commandments of all, upon which all the Law and the Prophets hinge, have to do with these two sets of relationships! Love for God and love for neighbor stand in the strongest possible contrast with the enmity God decreed between the Woman's godly seed(s) and Satan's ungodly seed(s) -- this enmity which is at the deepest root of all the distrust that man has toward his Creator and toward his fellow man -- this enmity which is at the root to all the jealousy, chaos, confusion, unrest, instability and distrust that nations have for one another and even internally within their own political systems.

In short, the Post-Fall Genesis account informs us in the clearest terms possible why the world -- yeah...why Life itself is the way it is and not something different.

[hcap]

I am not going to read your old post. Summarize where all of creation including animals were cursed in genesis if you can.

You can not

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You told us satan possessed the serpent and then the serpent was turned int a snake. Who cares? The question is why would a just god punish that poor innocent of tempting Eve creature. You claimed your god cursed (punished) all of creation and that's why the snake had to suffer.

Where does genesis say all of creation was cursed? It does say god cursed the ground speaking to Adam. But no creatures other than the serpent aka satan, were cursed. No snakes.
...Genesis 3:17

I can explain the post-Fall account to you but I can't make you understand it.
Not one aspect of life escaped God's curse due to the sin of our first parents. Not one. Again, see my 3477. And this curse will only be lifted after Christ returns and he rejuvenates and restores a sinful universe.

Rev 21:4
4 and He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there shall no longer be any death; there shall no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."
NASB

And,

Rev 22:1-3
1 And he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, 2 in the middle of its street. And on either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His bond-servants shall serve Him
NASB

And,

Rom 8:19-23
19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
NASB