Proposed Horseplayers' Bill of Rights

[Indulto]

As a horseplayer with an on-line, telephone, or on-track wagering account – or a registered participant in an on-track rewards program – who is interested in watching and/or wagering on any given pari-mutuel race in the United States, you have the right to:

1) View that race live via internet from any residential location in the United States

2) View a replay of any race involving a horse currently in training via the internet from any residential location in the United States.

3) Place a wager on that race at any racetrack, off-track simulcast center, or via the internet from any residential location in the United States.

4) If the wager you placed results in a pari-mutuel payout …
-A. Receive a payout reflecting the appropriate portion of the pari-mutuel pool minus takeout at an effective level that was negotiated by player representation to be the same regardless of where any wager on the race was accepted.
-B. Receive a payout reflecting breakage to the nearest cent.

5)Be represented by a body empowered through direct elections to …
-A.Negotiate equally effective takeout to be applied by all pari-mutuel bet-takers independent of wager size or wagering volume over time. (Said takeout could be based on pre-determined handle levels to ensure that growth supports purse levels and operating costs appropriately, but also to ensure that -- at any given level of handle -- the interests of all stakeholders (including bettors) remain in balance.)
-B.Maintain an “alternate steward” at designated live meets (perhaps funded by players) to
--1. Ensure consistency among steward decisions
--2. Monitor compliance with policies intended to prevent past-post wagers and cancellations
--3. Provide general feedback to players on other integrity issues
-C.Act as a liaison with industry executives and government representatives to ensure that the impact of contemplated policy changes on players will receive adequate consideration.

6) Be guaranteed protection for your personal information and funds entrusted to any bet-taking entity.

7) Receive free Past Performance data for that race with at least the basic statistical information available from the official results charts and official program changes.

8) Avail yourself of clean, functioning rest facilities, reasonably-priced food and beverages, and non-interruptible race call audio reception at any licensed racetrack or simulcast center.

[andymays]

It sounds good to me.

How do we get there in my lifetime? (By the way I'm not ready to seven out any time soon)

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by Indulto

As a horseplayer with an on-line, telephone, or on-track wagering account – or a registered participant in an on-track rewards program – who is interested in watching and/or wagering on any given pari-mutuel race in the United States, you have the right to:

1) View that race live via internet from any residential location in the United States

2) View a replay of any race involving a horse currently in training via the internet from any residential location in the United States.

3) Place a wager on that race at any racetrack, off-track simulcast center, or via the internet from any residential location in the United States.

4) If the wager you placed results in a pari-mutuel payout …
-A. Receive a payout reflecting the appropriate portion of the pari-mutuel pool minus takeout at an effective level that was negotiated by player representation to be the same regardless of where any wager on the race was accepted.
-B. Receive a payout reflecting breakage to the nearest cent.

5)Be represented by a body empowered through direct elections to …
-A.Negotiate equally effective takeout to be applied by all pari-mutuel bet-takers independent of wager size or wagering volume over time. (Said takeout could be based on pre-determined handle levels to ensure that growth supports purse levels and operating costs appropriately, but also to ensure that -- at any given level of handle -- the interests of all stakeholders (including bettors) remain in balance.)
-B.Maintain an “alternate steward” at designated live meets (perhaps funded by players) to
--1. Ensure consistency among steward decisions
--2. Monitor compliance with policies intended to prevent past-post wagers and cancellations
--3. Provide general feedback to players on other integrity issues
-C.Act as a liaison with industry executives and government representatives to ensure that the impact of contemplated policy changes on players will receive adequate consideration.

6) Be guaranteed protection for your personal information and funds entrusted to any bet-taking entity.

7) Receive free Past Performance data for that race with at least the basic statistical information available from the official results charts and official program changes.

8) Avail yourself of clean, functioning rest facilities, reasonably-priced food and beverages, and non-interruptible race call audio reception at any licensed racetrack or simulcast center.

Sounds good to me too

But will NEVER happen. If they were going to do this is would've been in last couple years to get the fans back and make new ones. But they did not and sold their souls and buisness to racinos. Racinos do not even want the racing part. It just something they're pretending to hold on to for now.

[Stillriledup]

Comments on #1.

Breeders Cup won't let you watch streaming video of their races, they force you to watch ESPN. I think horseplayers would rather watch warmups at 5 mins to post rather than commercials. I don't know, maybe that's just me.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Comments on #1.

Breeders Cup won't let you watch streaming video of their races, they force you to watch ESPN. I think horseplayers would rather watch warmups at 5 mins to post rather than commercials. I don't know, maybe that's just me.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but wasn't streaming video of the Breeders' Cup available THIS YEAR on their website?

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but wasn't streaming video of the Breeders' Cup available THIS YEAR on their website?

All i know is that when i went on Youbet, they said no video tune into ESPN to see the races.

[OTM Al]

Nice thoughts but it's going to require 50 States all to work in unison. I'm not holding my breath. Here's the problems:

1) States rights issue

2) This would be easier than 1) since it would not allow for live wagering. Who pays for the maintenace of the web site?

3) Forget it. See #1

4) A) Again, takeout is set by States in many places.
B) This is feasible now with electronic betting. Just going to have to overcome laws about where the breakage goes...see #1

5) A) Again, totally unrealistic. Gov't will not give this away
B) Wrong answer to the problem. Stewards reports should be available as they are in many places overseas. Don't need another steward, just need transparancy.
C) This is the best possible use of such a group and is the place to try to start.

6) This should be a given. Of course it is your own fault by signing up with an illegal or fly by night organization because they promise you the sky and then rip you off.

7) Who's paying for it? Its not free to print.

8) The cleanliness issue often is the fault of horseplayers. I've been in Aqueduct before it opens. Its clean. Wait 15 minutes after they open the doors. Somebody has crapped on the floor in the restroom and its a mess already. I've watched people throw whole programs on the floor feet from trashcans that are completely empty because everyon just throws everything on the floor. As for the food, you don't like the prices, bring your own. I'll agree about the audio though. that is the responsibility of the plant.


These things are all nice, but what then is the horseplayer's responsibilities?

[Tom]

I thought someone here in Selections posted that they were watching on the BC Website.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Tom

I thought someone here in Selections posted that they were watching on the BC Website.

I think it was available on the Breeders' Cup website and Cal Racing but that's it.

[the_fat_man]

Yeah

How exactly do any of these things keep someone who is good enough to win from winning?

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer sues the coffee company and settles, behind his lawyer's back, for unlimited daily cups of latte. I wonder if free SHEETS (or whatever he uses) would appease Indulto. It wouldn't make him a winner but it just might appease him.

[chickenhead]

I've been in Aqueduct before it opens. Its clean. Wait 15 minutes after they open the doors. Somebody has crapped on the floor in the restroom and its a mess already.

I asked you not to talk about this. I was trying to crap in the urinal, I just missed. Nobody's perfect.

[andymays]

That made the day!

[speed]

Originally Posted by andymays

That made the day!

Not for me

I had to clean it up

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Nice thoughts but it's going to require 50 States all to work in unison. I'm not holding my breath. Here's the problems:

1) States rights issue

2) This would be easier than 1) since it would not allow for live wagering. Who pays for the maintenace of the web site?

3) Forget it. See #1

4) A) Again, takeout is set by States in many places.
B) This is feasible now with electronic betting. Just going to have to overcome laws about where the breakage goes...see #1

5) A) Again, totally unrealistic. Gov't will not give this away
B) Wrong answer to the problem. Stewards reports should be available as they are in many places overseas. Don't need another steward, just need transparancy.
C) This is the best possible use of such a group and is the place to try to start.

6) This should be a given. Of course it is your own fault by signing up with an illegal or fly by night organization because they promise you the sky and then rip you off.

7) Who's paying for it? Its not free to print.

8) The cleanliness issue often is the fault of horseplayers. I've been in Aqueduct before it opens. Its clean. Wait 15 minutes after they open the doors. Somebody has crapped on the floor in the restroom and its a mess already. I've watched people throw whole programs on the floor feet from trashcans that are completely empty because everyon just throws everything on the floor. As for the food, you don't like the prices, bring your own. I'll agree about the audio though. that is the responsibility of the plant.


These things are all nice, but what then is the horseplayer's responsibilities?

Thanks for responding, OA.

1), 3) -- Don't Feds have authority to mandate equal rights/treatment for all citizens?

2) Player pays for any race none of whose contestants have been entered to run in last xx days?? Subscriptions?

4) A., 5) A. -- Govt. WILL give when handle gets low enough.

5) B. -- Sometimes input is required prior to the decision being made. An "alternate" would normally not be involved unless a) there were a conflict among the stewards or b) a potential DQ (or lack of one) was not consistent with the previous occurrence of similar circumstances ("alternate" would always query a database constructed for that purpose.) Just something to think about.

6) Should be a given, but isn't. That's why it's there.

7) Would be a subset of a regular product. Player pays to print it.

8) Fostering cooperation and enforcing public nuisence laws would be a start. Everybody isn't a gourmet -- value menu pricing should be an alternative; especially with bootled water.

BTW this is only a starting point. Feel free to add items you think would be appropriate. Nothing will change if you don't believe it can and/or don't want it badly enough.

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Yeah

How exactly do any of these things keep someone who is good enough to win from winning?

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer sues the coffee company and settles, behind his lawyer's back, for unlimited daily cups of latte. I wonder if free SHEETS (or whatever he uses) would appease Indulto. It wouldn't make him a winner but it just might appease him.

tfm,
I guarantee you that free sheets would not improve my game, but their interpreation by certain of their users would go a long way. I personally would do about as well with a DRF minus Beyer, Moss, and even traditional DRF figures with variant, but I only play on weekends, holidays, and days with irresistable P6 carryovers.

The concept here is VERY SIMPLE. Treat customers fairly and respectfully and earn their return business.