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09-19-2020, 11:29 PM
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#136
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicknow
There is a lot of miles between "livestock" and "pets".
And a lot of "horse people" do not consider horses to be livestock. They are considered companion animals, i.e. to work and be around humans.
Livestock is mostly bred for the table. By calling horses livestock you are putting them more on the level of swine, cows, chickens, etc.
Many little horses are now being trained as seeing eye horses. You don't do that with livestock.
And there's a reason we don't turn livestock into athletes.
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Horses are considered livestock by the federal government and have been for a while in many states, you can spin it as you want.
My larger point is still the same. There are a lot of people that see them merely as a commodity rather than anything close to a companion. I honestly cannot say I heard anyone refer to a horse as a companion, though I suppose it could happen.
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09-20-2020, 07:23 PM
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#137
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 311
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A lot of farmers refer to horses as nothing more than lawn ornaments.
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09-20-2020, 10:44 PM
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#138
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost king
A lot of farmers refer to horses as nothing more than lawn ornaments.
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People are welcome to think of them as lawn ornaments, I can't stop you or anyone else from thinking that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
I honestly cannot say I heard anyone refer to a horse as a companion, though I suppose it could happen.
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Not anyone, huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
My larger point is still the same. There are a lot of people that see them merely as a commodity rather than anything close to a companion.
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You have no point.
Other than that you see horses as "commodities".
And, if you end up in the majority, then many would be glad to see racing end.
Except, you're not. So that's a good thing.
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09-22-2020, 01:29 AM
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#139
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: South of heaven
Posts: 385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
People love the horses, but in the end they are a vehicle to economic sustainability, they are live stock and not pets.
No one wants to hear that and obviously the scale on feelings about stuff like that will vary but my personal experience working in Ky at both the farm and the track you certainly get that feeling a bit.
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There can be different categories within categories.
You can have performance stock, for example. Look at rodeos and the Pro Bull Riding animals. I can't think of anyone who breeds, raises, and campaigns a high class bucking bull just to send it to the feed lot.
Sure, horses can be considered livestock depending on what people do (or don't do) with them, but racehorses, jumpers, and other sport horses are intended to participate in athletic endeavors.
Also consider that racehorses receive all kinds of medications and therapeutics that aren't meant to enter the human food chain.
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09-22-2020, 12:56 PM
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#140
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
Didnt pletcher have a group of horses suddenly and inexplicably die at saratoga a few years back, similar to baffert?
The name left bank sticks in my head but maybe that is wrong, was a tabor horse, and there were others less known.
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That was a lot different because they quickly knew what was wrong with the horses. The 7 Baffert horses died mysteriously due to heart failure and I don't see how it could not have been from drugs.
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09-22-2020, 01:06 PM
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#141
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy
That was a lot different because they quickly knew what was wrong with the horses. The 7 Baffert horses died mysteriously due to heart failure and I don't see how it could not have been from drugs.
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Details here:
http://www.espn.com/horse/news/2002/1008/1443227.html
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09-22-2020, 04:52 PM
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#142
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy
That was a lot different because they quickly knew what was wrong with the horses. The 7 Baffert horses died mysteriously due to heart failure and I don't see how it could not have been from drugs.
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I hear Colitis X is a regular occurrence with races horses (this is sarcasm).
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09-22-2020, 06:29 PM
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#143
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GARY
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,339
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Baffert and other Super trainers
Based upon the indictments brought against Navarro and Servis, why isn't
the Federal Government and/or the local California officials intervening
on these illegal (drugging ) tactics.
That said, I'm having a difficult time trying to understand why a high profile
trainer would flaunt his ability to win major races with illegally medicated
thoroughbreds, and endanger the lives of the horse and Jockey.
As a side note, it would interesting to see how many of these trainers and,
most important, veterinarians would submit to lie detector tests on the issue
of illegal medication.
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09-22-2020, 06:38 PM
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#144
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY BRED
That said, I'm having a difficult time trying to understand why
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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09-24-2020, 10:09 PM
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#145
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 510
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Bob Baffert "The Best Dirt Trainer in the WORLD." Y'all just Love to hate
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09-26-2020, 11:22 PM
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#146
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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You guys must have loved Improbable's performance today.
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09-27-2020, 10:08 AM
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#147
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
You guys must have loved Improbable's performance today.
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I thought he ran well, but he also got a pretty good setup.
It was almost as if Espinoza was riding Midcourt for Baffert and sacrificing his own horse to try to weaken Maximum Security and help Baffert's other horse win.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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09-27-2020, 10:31 AM
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#148
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
I thought he ran well, but he also got a pretty good setup.
It was almost as if Espinoza was riding Midcourt for Baffert and sacrificing his own horse to try to weaken Maximum Security and help Baffert's other horse win.
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Wouldn't be the first time Baffert sacrificed a Gary West horse to help his other horse win.
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09-27-2020, 10:41 AM
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#149
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,560
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i haven't studied the race a bunch, but it looked like Improbable was the only one moving. Circling a moderate pace? Harder to tell in a short, bunched field.
I thought he was simply a faster horse, and ran 'his own' race without regard to the setup. I could be completely wrong.
Maximum Security looked flat, and never flashed any level of separation/brilliance vs. the others.
Improbable kind of looked like he was loaded, and could go by any time. It's not like he waited long for Maximum Security to have first crack, so I can't really guess on that respect.
/as far as any theories or whatever... I thought Maximum Security was the star here, and they would have loved him to win.
For the tinfoil hatters - Maybe Improbable has a market as "The City Zip that can now get 9, 10 furlongs!" ... who knows...
Improbable was one of my Derby picks, but that didn't pan out.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
Last edited by Robert Fischer; 09-27-2020 at 10:43 AM.
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09-27-2020, 11:34 AM
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#150
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 510
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"Starting to see Bob Baffert as ", The Best Trainer in American Racing history"
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