Exchange wagering - another scandal in the UK

[horses4courses]

Four UK jockeys found guilty of corruption today.

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/n...p.html&BID=464


Maybe we can open a book in the US on Betfair as to who will be the first rider and trainer found cheating through a betting exchange over here?
Should be a wide open market.......

[lamboguy]

i think the lesson to be learned here is that in england they take horseracing serious and they are always on the lookout for things that don't look right. there are lots of race meets in great britain and lots of people that bet horse racing there. they are only looking to protect the customer's of the game.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i think the lesson to be learned here is that in england they take horseracing serious and they are always on the lookout for things that don't look right. there are lots of race meets in great britain and lots of people that bet horse racing there. they are only looking to protect the customer's of the game.

I agree with you, lambo.

The point I am making, though, is that it would not be so easy for connections to cheat, if they did not have the opportunity to lay their horses to lose through the exchange markets. It's made it way too easy for them.

[FAKIRIS]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i think the lesson to be learned here is that in england they take horseracing serious and they are always on the lookout for things that don't look right. there are lots of race meets in great britain and lots of people that bet horse racing there. they are only looking to protect the customer's of the game.

Exchange wagering will be the final nail in the coffin for horse racing in the old U.S.A.

[duncan04]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i think the lesson to be learned here is that in england they take horseracing serious and they are always on the lookout for things that don't look right. there are lots of race meets in great britain and lots of people that bet horse racing there. they are only looking to protect the customer's of the game.

Well if thats the case then the U.S. is screwed!

[gm10]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i think the lesson to be learned here is that in england they take horseracing serious and they are always on the lookout for things that don't look right. there are lots of race meets in great britain and lots of people that bet horse racing there. they are only looking to protect the customer's of the game.

That is exactly right. Betfair is a medium for would-be cheaters, but it also creates a great tool to catch them. Imagine if Betfair America started monitoring Mountaineer Park. How long before they couldn't fill races anymore due to a shortage of available jockeys ?

[melman]

Four jockeys and two owners were given bans of up to 14 yearsw after being convicted in London of race-fixing as a result of the British Horseracing Authority's biggest corruption inquiry.
Jimmy Quinn, Kirsty Milczarek, Grey Gailey, and Paul Doe were found to be in breach of various rules following an investigation into 10 races in 2009 in which large bets were placed on horses to LOSE.
Doe and Fairley received 12 year bans after being convicted of deliberately ensuring horses did not run on their merits. Owners Maurice Sines and James Crickmore, who were each banned for 14 years.

Question---Betting to LOSE.---Does that mean Betfair?

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by melman

Four jockeys and two owners were given bans of up to 14 yearsw after being convicted in London of race-fixing as a result of the British Horseracing Authority's biggest corruption inquiry.
Jimmy Quinn, Kirsty Milczarek, Grey Gailey, and Paul Doe were found to be in breach of various rules following an investigation into 10 races in 2009 in which large bets were placed on horses to LOSE.
Doe and Fairley received 12 year bans after being convicted of deliberately ensuring horses did not run on their merits. Owners Maurice Sines and James Crickmore, who were each banned for 14 years.

Question---Betting to LOSE.---Does that mean Betfair?

Yes.....I started a thread on this yesterday

Exchange wagering - another scandal in the UK

[melman]

Sorry horses did not see your thread.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by melman

Sorry horses did not see your thread.

No problem at all.

I hate criticizing exchange wagering - but it really has a dark side to it.

I'm a grown man, and can make my own decisions as to what, and what not, to bet on.
You really have to smell a rat when, say, a legitimate 2-1, or 3-1 chance, is being laid to lose a bunch at 4-1, or higher.
The connections of the horse in question should tell a tale, also.

Nobody can tell me that it's not bookmaking.
You can choose your position - whether to bet on someone's odds, or to make the odds yourself.
The second option is taking the bookmaker's role - you are laying a horse to lose. You are the bookmaker. Case closed.

[bob60566]

Glad we do not have this in North American racing as in my recollection there have been VERY few convictions that I have seen reported.

Once bookmakers get fleeced the flag goes up and crying leads to investigations.
I guess all the ADW never get toasted so why would they complain,and welcome the insiders $$$$ with rebates.

My game plan is if you do not know how the whole game is played do not play.

Bookmakers and ADW

Intresting

Mac

[Some_One]

If you think that there is nothing shady going on over on this side of the pond, then you're like an ostrich with your head in the sand. And if you're dumb enough to try it over there, then you deserve a long ban, the security teams and information sharing over there will get you caught eventually.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by Some_One

If you think that there is nothing shady going on over on this side of the pond, then you're like an ostrich with your head in the sand. And if you're dumb enough to try it over there, then you deserve a long ban, the security teams and information sharing over there will get you caught eventually.

I don't think anyone would ever argue that horse racing anywhere is completely honest.
Is corruption rampant? I don't believe so.

The problem I have, though, is with regard to penalties for those found guilty.
Lifetime bans should be far more common.

For example, if there is evidence that an owner/jockey/trainer/vet profits through betting by race fixing, they don't belong in the sport. Ever.
The prospect of facing a lifetime ban from your lively hood might reduce the temptation to cheat.

If, and when, exchange wagering is launched in the US, strict guidelines need to be put into place regarding cheating, and profiting from it.
This is going to be a whole new ball game.......

[Jeff P]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=89293

In the above linked to thread (in post #1) I laid out the player's parimutuel win pool expectation for races where the post time favorite fails to finish first.

No matter what you think (pro or con) about the merits of parimutuel strategies designed to get past the favorite - the simple truth is this:

With no handicapping and zero contender selection whatsoever, if the player is able to restrict win wagers to races where the favorite fails to win, substantial profits are available simply by betting the 2nd through 7th ranked public choices to win.

Anyone who thinks the current parimutuel system offers "protection" against nefarious activity (in any way shape or form) is being extremely naive.


-jp

.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

I don't think anyone would ever argue that horse racing anywhere is completely honest.
Is corruption rampant? I don't think so.

The problem I have, though, is with regard to penalties for those found guilty.
Lifetime bans should be far more common.

For example, if there is evidence that an owner/jockey/trainer/vet profits through betting by race fixing, they don't belong in the sport. Ever.
The prospect of facing a lifetime ban from your lively hood might reduce the temptation to cheat.

If, and when, exchange wagering is launched in the US, strict guidelines need to be put into place regarding cheating, and profiting from it.
This is going to be a whole new ball game.......

The problem, of course, is that corruption doesn't have to be "rampant" in order for the game to be rendered unbeatable...and unplayable.

The game is so chaotic, and so highly taxed already...it cannot afford any more "unknown" factors, if it's to remain a serious gambling game.

The most heavily taxed gambling game in existence should not also be the one with the shadiest reputation.

Without "real" punishment for the cheaters...the game is doomed, IMO.

Our horsemen should learn a little something from their harness racing brethren, who are scrambling to win $2,000 purses...while trying to cash bets in tiny betting pools.