The coronavirus

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by ElKabong

My high school football position coach said this about turnovers. "I have no sympathy for self inflicted wounds"

Thats how I see people who have eaten their way into diabetes, obesity, etc. It was a choice. No one ordered them to live a shitty lifestyle.

For those with conditions that had nothing to do with lifestyle choices, that's a different story. But the fact is, the vast majority of people with the issues you've listed above has brought their poor health on themselves. Sad but true

Good health has its rewards.

My son has severe asthma, my daughter type1 diabetes since she was 3.....I think your majority brought it upon themselves is a large over generalization.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I initially said that people cause their own obesity...and you implied that it isn't necessarily their own fault. And the psychologists agree...by telling the obese people that "the diets have failed them.

Here's a little story that I've never shared with anyone before:

Twelve years ago I was diagnosed with a life-threatening disease which, without surgery and extensive chemotherapy treatments, my doctor assured me would kill me in a year's time. I was 46 years old at the time...and was solely responsible for the care of my then 9-year-old son. My wife had died of a gruesome disease 4 years earlier, at the age of 37. After assessing the circumstances of my life, and having already witnessed what conventional medicine had done to my wife...I decided to ignore my doctor's advice, and I took total control of my diet and lifestyle. I overhauled my diet completely, and adopted the sort of strict eating regimen that I never would have been strong enough to follow had I not been in such a scary life situation. After following my self-prescribed diet for a couple of weeks, I discovered that I had enough new energy to allow me to start a regular exercise program...whose intensity I increased as my energy increased. Fast-forward 12 years...and my health is at its highest peak...while I find myself in the best physical condition of my life. My doctor calls it a "miracle".

After what I saw happen to me...I naturally became an advocate for healthy living...and decided to share what I knew with several sick relatives of mine. I have a sister whose house is a block away from mine...and she had been having a weight problem for 20 years. She was pre-diabetic, and was on blood pressure medication since her 40th birthday. I shared my story with her...and begged her to change her diet for the sake of herself, and her two daughters. She persistently and politely ignored my advice...by jokingly telling me that life wasn't worth living if we couldn't eat the foods that we "craved".

My sister was infected with the coronavirus in May of this year...and died soon thereafter, after spending 20 days on a ventilator. She was 52. And, instead of feeling sorry for her...I am overcome by anger...because I am convinced that she contributed heavily to her own demise. And, why didn't she strive to make the needed changes in order to regain her health ahead of time? Because, IMO, her pre-diabetic state and her high blood pressure weren't grave enough illnesses to entice her to make the much-needed lifestyle changes. If she had gotten sick with cancer...maybe she would have been scared enough to follow some sound dietary advice. So, when you tell me that the obese people have gained the weight because of some "outside suffering"...I find myself in strong disagreement with you. As far as I am concerned, these people haven't experienced ENOUGH suffering. Because if they had...then they would have gotten scared shitless...and taken drastic measures to remedy their health problems. Like I did. No real change is possible until you are scared to death. But, for most...that comes way too late.

I share your disdain for people who will not try and help themselves. I didn't say that people gained wait from "outside suffering" but I agree that experiencing some pain and suffering is often the catalyst needed for change.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by ElKabong

My high school football position coach said this about turnovers. "I have no sympathy for self inflicted wounds"

Thats how I see people who have eaten their way into diabetes, obesity, etc. It was a choice. No one ordered them to live a shitty lifestyle.

For those with conditions that had nothing to do with lifestyle choices, that's a different story. But the fact is, the vast majority of people with the issues you've listed above has brought their poor health on themselves. Sad but true

Good health has its rewards.

Comorbidity is not always a choice. I was in perfect health until I turned 65. I had been a cross country cyclist when I was younger. No question much of our physical condition is a result of lack of self-discipline, but not when genetics or environmental factors take precedent.

The coronvirus is a verified environmental factor as all infections diseases are.

As I said, your 6% bullshit is just that. No matter whether a patient's comorbidity is a personal responsibility or not, the active cause of death by the coronavirus is not the comorbidity, but the virus itself . Denying all 190,000 domestic deaths and all 850,000 globally, is just another pandemic denying lunacy.


Excess mortality from the Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid


Excess mortality is a term used in epidemiology and public health that refers to the number of deaths above and beyond what we would have expected to see under ‘normal’ conditions. “Mortality above what would be expected based on the non-crisis mortality rate in the population of interest. Excess mortality is thus mortality that is attributable to the crisis conditions. It can be expressed as a rate (the difference between observed and non-crisis mortality rates), or as a total number of excess deaths.”

To calculate ‘excess mortality’ in a given period we would look at the number of people who had died over this period, and compare it to the number we would have expected to have died. In other words, it is calculated as:

[ElKabong]

Originally Posted by hcap

Comorbidity is not always a choice. I was in perfect health until I turned 65. I had been a cross country cyclist when I was younger. No question much of our physical condition is a result of lack of self-discipline, but not when genetics or environmental factors take precedent.

The coronvirus is a verified environmental factor as all infections diseases are.

As I said, your 6% bullshit is just that. No matter whether a patient's comorbidity is a personal responsibility or not, the active cause of death by the coronavirus is not the comorbidity, but the virus itself . Denying all 190,000 domestic deaths and all 850,000 globally, is just another pandemic denying lunacy.


Excess mortality from the Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid


Excess mortality is a term used in epidemiology and public health that refers to the number of deaths above and beyond what we would have expected to see under ‘normal’ conditions. “Mortality above what would be expected based on the non-crisis mortality rate in the population of interest. Excess mortality is thus mortality that is attributable to the crisis conditions. It can be expressed as a rate (the difference between observed and non-crisis mortality rates), or as a total number of excess deaths.”

To calculate ‘excess mortality’ in a given period we would look at the number of people who had died over this period, and compare it to the number we would have expected to have died. In other words, it is calculated as:

As stated before, I was a competitive cyclist and triathlete in my 30s. I knew a lot of unhealthy people I raced with. Dietary choices of many were horrible and it cost them later on.

Look, I'm not perfect in this either. I was a heavy smoker until I was 31. I didn't get my shit together in my eating right until then either. Thankfully I righted the ship. So many people I know now didn't. A bunch I know blame it on genetics but that's a hard sell when you eat fast food 4x a week and don't excercise. All I can do is hope they see what they're doing, and ignore what they say

[hcap]

Originally Posted by ElKabong

As stated before, I was a competitive cyclist and triathlete in my 30s. I knew a lot of unhealthy people I raced with. Dietary choices of many were horrible and it cost them later on.

Look, I'm not perfect in this either. I was a heavy smoker until I was 31. I didn't get my shit together in my eating right until then either. Thankfully I righted the ship. So many people I know now didn't. A bunch I know blame it on genetics but that's a hard sell when you eat fast food 4x a week and don't excercise. All I can do is hope they see what they're doing, and ignore what they say

Before bicycle touring was popular hear, in 1968, rodec a 10 speed Italian bike New York to San Diego, then up highway 1 to Los Angeles. Worked a few months, then continued to San Francisco. I trained for that trip and maintained that frame of mind until recently.

Had to retire at 65 due to neurological issues that have gotten worse. I am legally blind and must use a walker.

I had very little choice in getting sick.

Yes, many folks let themselves go and exasperate illness, but a serious infectious disease is not caused by "letting themselves go"

[davew]

The conspiracy guys are saying this virus has bits and pieces from the 1918 pandemic virus. Apparently there is a NIH researcher that 'collected' specimens from lung tissue of dead military men from 1918 buried in Alaska permafrost.

The scientists should have learned from Jurassic Park that just because you can do something, does not mean you should.

[ElKabong]

All these positive cases reported on campusus, yet no hospitalizations....For the younger folk, it's not much more than a cold.>> Tawk amoungst yahselves…

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[hcap]

Originally Posted by ElKabong

All these positive cases reported on campusus, yet no hospitalizations....For the younger folk, it's not much more than a cold.>> Tawk amoungst yahselves…

https://twitter.com/andrewbostom/sta...47711131308032

Another attempt to deny the pandemic. Deaths and hospitalizations are lagging indicators. A major reason deaths are expected to double in the US by January, is although the young don't get as sick as their parents, and grandparents, they are asymptomatic carriers to all of the population.

"But experts warn that viral infections typically spike in the weeks after school resumes and when colder, drier weather can help viruses stay viable longer and spread more easily."


And.....

CDC data on more than 1,400 hospitalizations related to Covid-19 shows people under the age of 50 accounted for about 25% of the hospitalizations. Most of those people had other underlying health conditions, but at least seven of them did not, CDC said.

[ElKabong]

Originally Posted by hcap

Another attempt to deny the pandemic. Deaths and hospitalizations are lagging indicators. A major reason deaths are expected to double in the US by January, is although the young don't get as sick as their parents, and grandparents, they are asymptomatic carriers to all of the population.

"But experts warn that viral infections typically spike in the weeks after school resumes and when colder, drier weather can help viruses stay viable longer and spread more easily."


And.....

CDC data on more than 1,400 hospitalizations related to Covid-19 shows people under the age of 50 accounted for about 25% of the hospitalizations. Most of those people had other underlying health conditions, but at least seven of them did not, CDC said.

This was your same reply after Texas had a high # of cases in late July. You were hyping the end of the world for us here, because after all, we had all those cases and it was a matter of time.

It was a sham. Yes the numbers were up, you and the Fear Porn crew exaggerated the ICU bed situation. Never was a problem. Nothing came of it

Tell ya what, follow these students and check back. No one is buying your Fear Porn anymore.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by ElKabong

This was your same reply after Texas had a high # of cases in late July. You were hyping the end of the world for us here, because after all, we had all those cases and it was a matter of time.

It was a sham. Yes the numbers were up, you and the Fear Porn crew exaggerated the ICU bed situation. Never was a problem. Nothing came of it

Tell ya what, follow these students and check back. No one is buying your Fear Porn anymore.

That was not my position. I simply said as I said now, deaths and hospitalizations lag infections. If I were you, unless your state, as all other states stay vigilant, infections will spike. Particularly as the fall/winter approaches, and activities move more indoors and schools re-open and abrupt Trumpian attempts to "normalize" the economy repeat.

This is not over.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by hcap

That was not my position. I simply said as I said now, deaths and hospitalizations lag infections. If I were you, unless your state, as all other states stay vigilant, infections will spike. Particularly as the fall/winter approaches, and activities move more indoors and schools re-open and abrupt Trumpian attempts to "normalize" the economy repeat.

This is not over.

It was over the minute that the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

It was over when Fonzie jumped the shark.

The tide is turning against you and your ilk Harry. Kamala is already crying that we shouldn’t trust any vaccine issued before the election. Talk about a vast left wing conspiracy theory.

[davew]

Originally Posted by hcap

That was not my position. I simply said as I said now, deaths and hospitalizations lag infections. If I were you, unless your state, as all other states stay vigilant, infections will spike. Particularly as the fall/winter approaches, and activities move more indoors and schools re-open and abrupt Trumpian attempts to "normalize" the economy repeat.

This is not over.

over half of the attributed CV deaths died from the flu


fall and winter will bring another flu season


are you still saying 3-5% death rate from CV infection?


depletion of susceptibles will drop the actual new cases to very low levels. although false positives may show 'explosion'

https://coronagraphs.com/slice/deple...-susceptibles/

[Greyfox]

CDC Director Redfield stated

‘We’re Seeing, Sadly, Far Greater Suicides Now than We Are Deaths from COVID.’

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/w...h-by-covid-19/

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

My son has severe asthma, my daughter type1 diabetes since she was 3.....I think your majority brought it upon themselves is a large over generalization.

Yes, and I think the rise in auto immune diseases, of which there are many, like MS, or Lupus, are certainly not self-inflicted, so there's that. We haven't figured out the etiology of AI stuff yet, which asthma may be one such AI, but any and all of these things would be considered pre existing conditions that might well hamper one's ability to overcome a contagious disease.

There are also genetic things that people don't self-contribute to, like sickle cell anemia in certain populations

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

CDC Director Redfield stated

‘We’re Seeing, Sadly, Far Greater Suicides Now than We Are Deaths from COVID.’

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/w...h-by-covid-19/

How come you weren't "concerned" about all the people in nursing homes and rehab centers, seniors who are no longer mobile and house bound, children who are in abusive homes, and numerous other shut ins due to depression when Trump was busy cutting funding to mental health programs? .......but now suddenly mental health concerns are important to you?



Even Fox noted Trump's cuts to mental health funding:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...-school-safety


https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...icle-1.3822890

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ld-cut-program

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-has-t...etoric-1452907