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08-09-2017, 01:38 PM
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#136
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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In gambling...only the HOUSE is guaranteed a profit. In horse racing...the "house" is the TRACK. All the other entities involved in this game...whether they be called "owners", "trainers", jockeys", "jockey-agents", "gamblers", etc...are in the SPECULATING business...and they are taking a big financial RISK by participating in this game. And...there should be no "whining" appeased...for any rise in our respective "costs of doing business". If we don't like it...then, THERE is the door.
Justice for ALL.
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Live to play another day.
Last edited by thaskalos; 08-09-2017 at 01:43 PM.
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08-09-2017, 01:49 PM
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#137
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
The horseplayers aren't guaranteed a profit -- much less a "living" -- in this game...so, why should the HORSEMEN? If the horseman's operating costs are "skyrocketing", then why isn't he looking for something else to do with his time...just as he advises the whining HORSEPLAYER to do? Who assured the horseman that horse racing is an "entertainment venue" for US...but a "living" for HIM?
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I am sure that there are many horsemen who have found something else to do. Really? on your last question. So a person who has millions invested in a breeding/racing operation should view a horse bettor as an equal?
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08-09-2017, 01:55 PM
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#138
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
In gambling...only the HOUSE is guaranteed a profit. In horse racing...the "house" is the TRACK. All the other entities involved in this game...whether they be called "owners", "trainers", jockeys", "jockey-agents", "gamblers", etc...are in the SPECULATING business...and they are taking a big financial RISK by participating in this game. And...there should be no "whining" appeased...for any rise in our respective "costs of doing business". If we don't like it...then, THERE is the door.
Justice for ALL.
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If the house, in fact, was guaranteed a profit there wouldn't be tracks closing their doors each year. Everybody assumes risk.
Whining seems to work in many businesses.
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08-09-2017, 01:56 PM
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#139
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
I am sure that there are many horsemen who have found something else to do. Really? on your last question. So a person who has millions invested in a breeding/racing operation should view a horse bettor as an equal?
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Let me answer your question with a question of my OWN:
I have a $25,000 stock account...and you are a "big-shot"...with a stock account of $25,000,000. What "profit quarantees" should be available to YOU...that aren't available to ME? Isn't this a "gambling game" for the BOTH of us? Are you "more entitled" to a profit than I AM?
__________________
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08-09-2017, 02:01 PM
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#140
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
If the house, in fact, was guaranteed a profit there wouldn't be tracks closing their doors each year. Everybody assumes risk.
Whining seems to work in many businesses.
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The track is guaranteed a profit as long as the game is going on properly. That's why it's vital that the right decisions be made...in order for the game to continue into the future. When outright NEGLIGENCE causes the game to flounder...then, not even the HOUSE should whine.
__________________
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Last edited by thaskalos; 08-09-2017 at 02:10 PM.
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08-09-2017, 02:03 PM
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#141
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Therein lies the problem. If people are so stupid that they have to be told that there is a problem and that they must act, then there is no hope for success.
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Most people are uninformed and don't know better. It's reality
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08-09-2017, 02:09 PM
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#142
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
Most people are uninformed and don't know better. It's reality
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And that's why the battle may already be lost, before it even starts. Because, in this game, the "uninformed" don't even know that they are "uninformed". They think that they know-it-all already.
__________________
Live to play another day.
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08-09-2017, 02:19 PM
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#143
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,512
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failure, thus far
What we see here is a failure to show both the industry, and the players, that takeout significantly affects churn, and that churn significantly affects their bottom lines.
Without clear, convincing evidence, the industry is going to be fine with their current strategy, and the players will be largely indifferent (aside from 'outbursts' such as this thread).
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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08-09-2017, 02:33 PM
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#144
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Let me answer your question with a question of my OWN:
I have a $25,000 stock account...and you are a "big-shot"...with a stock account of $25,000,000. What "profit quarantees" should be available to YOU...that aren't available to ME? Isn't this a "gambling game" for the BOTH of us? Are you "more entitled" to a profit than I AM?
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First of all the stock market is not a zero sum game. Gambling (horse betting) is a negative sum game. I am not aware that anyone is asking for a profit guarantee. Just about any business will try to minimize their costs in pursuit of making a profit.
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08-09-2017, 02:34 PM
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#145
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
Most people are uninformed and don't know better. It's reality
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For these people racing is pure entertainment. If not, they would be informed.
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08-09-2017, 02:36 PM
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#146
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fischer
What we see here is a failure to show both the industry, and the players, that takeout significantly affects churn, and that churn significantly affects their bottom lines.
Without clear, convincing evidence, the industry is going to be fine with their current strategy, and the players will be largely indifferent (aside from 'outbursts' such as this thread).
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It doesn't matter if the players realize that the takeout adversely affects their bottom line. The ever-shortening fields magnify the effects of the takeouts, even when they remain stable...and the players are sure to notice it when their wagering accounts are depleted...if they aren't already.
If you've been paying attention to the goings-on here, Robert...then you've probably noticed that the vast majority of the members here have recently admitted that they are betting a lot less money on the horses now than they have in the past. Some have even said that they've stopped betting ALTOGETHER...after betting the horses for many years. Do you suppose that they've done this because they have found "other gambling interests" for their money? Are they frequenting the CASINOS now, since they've stopped betting as much as they did on the horses? Of course not. Without exception...they've stopped because they've been LOSING. And, if they were smart...then they stopped before they did serious damage to their financial well-being.
When you lose enough, then you notice it...and you stop betting, or you slow down significantly. It matters not if you realize that the "takeout" beat you...or if you think that you lost your money for some other reason. The outcome is the same either way...and it doesn't bode well for the game, going forward.
__________________
Live to play another day.
Last edited by thaskalos; 08-09-2017 at 02:46 PM.
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08-09-2017, 02:41 PM
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#147
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
For these people racing is pure entertainment. If not, they would be informed.
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Funny. I've been watching these people for years, as they file out of the OTB facilities after the day's "entertainment". They sure don't appear "entertained".
__________________
Live to play another day.
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08-09-2017, 02:42 PM
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#148
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fischer
What we see here is a failure to show both the industry, and the players, that takeout significantly affects churn, and that churn significantly affects their bottom lines.
Without clear, convincing evidence, the industry is going to be fine with their current strategy, and the players will be largely indifferent (aside from 'outbursts' such as this thread).
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The Canterbury experiment sure didn't help convincing anybody.
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08-09-2017, 02:51 PM
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#149
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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The minnows can boycot all they want unless the sharks boycott then this is wasted breath.
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08-09-2017, 03:00 PM
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#150
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
It doesn't matter if the players realize that the takeout adversely affects their bottom line.
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Maybe the players are mostly losing entertainment/gamblers who aren't that sensitive to the concept of churn.
However, TRACKS and ADWs, and SHAREHOLDERS are extremely sensitive to their bottom line.
If someone can show them clear proof that takeout-sensitive 'churn' improves their bottom line, some will be willing to accept that competitive advantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
The Canterbury experiment sure didn't help convincing anybody.
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That was such an ill-conceived 'reach' to begin with. They could give me zero takeout, free cadbury chocolate eggs, and have the cadburry bunny at the track for the kids, and I would still not have much desire to figure out who the hell they are.
Seems like we're more focused on 'organizing' for the sake of the power dynamic than to present an irrefutable case to the Tracks, ADWs, and Shareholders.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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