What will be DMR's cut of Betfair's trading on the Pacific Classic today?

[Foolish Pleasure]

THe correct answer is less than $100.
and probably a lot less than $100.
probably less than $50.


For every $1000 matched Betfair pays fifty cents to the tracks.

So even if they multiplied the total matched by 10.

DMR or any other track is getting less than $500 here.
Of course while Betfair itself pockets ten times that much not including stealth fees.


Certainly sounds reasonable to me.

[Charlie D]

Here you go educate yourself
http://www.hblb.org.uk/

[Stillriledup]

Betfair is not legal in the USA. As a USA resident you can't bet matchups at betfair on a del mar race. Until America can legalize matchup wagering, DMR is going to continue to get peanuts for Betfair matchups.

[Foolish Pleasure]

They matched $100K on the Travers,
Betfair makes between $500 to $750-

SAR's cut between $50 and $75.



Sure Burn in order for us to have a thriving sport that is the sort of thing needed along with a hike in takeout on the tote.




I am not really sure he actually believes lower takeout is better either.

Afterall Betfair has done nothing but raise the takeout on the exchange since they opened.

[Foolish Pleasure]

Match ups?


This is exchange handle in the win and place markets.


They pay the tracks between fifty and seventy five cents for every thousand dollars matched depending on their actual hold.


or virtual nothing.



This is not hard.

If they match $1million dollars, they make between $5000 and $7500 and pay the tracks $500-$750,

even if it was 100% fully legal in the US, they not matching $1million a race.

not hard to understand.

[Charlie D]

Originally Posted by Foolish Pleasure

Match ups?


This is exchange handle in the win and place markets.


They pay the tracks between fifty and seventy five cents for every thousand dollars matched depending on their actual hold.


or virtual nothing.

Got a link to the above info please.

[Foolish Pleasure]

Your own link.

Since its inception,
the percentage has stayed rock steady at
10% of gross profits.


Betfair gross profits are between 1/2% and 3/4% of what is matched-
can find that for yourself in Betfair financial reports which are available online to anyone at least for the years they decided to make public.


Hmm what does that equal?

Let's see $1mill matched*1/2%-3/4%=$5000-$7500

10% of $5000-$7500 equals $500-$750 or

fifty to seventy five cents per dollar matched to the tracks.

or virtual nothing.


DMR and SPA will get less than $100 for their million dollar races today and even if legal in the US, what could they expect?

$1000 maximum.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Foolish Pleasure

Your own link.

Since its inception,
the percentage has stayed rock steady at
10% of gross profits.


Betfair gross profits are between 1/2% and 3/4% of what is matched-
can find that for yourself in their financial reports.



Hmm what does that equal?

Let's see $1mill matched*1/2%-3/4%=$5000-$7500

10% of $5000-$7500 equals $500-$750 or

fifty to seventy five cents per dollar matched to the tracks.

or virtual nothing.

Is there really any proof that even one dollar of traditional handle gets lost to matchup betting?

[Foolish Pleasure]

How about the entire country of France?

Where takeout starts at 27% or something, Betfair came in, wiped out the tote revenue and was kicked out? Is that evidence enough?


How about South Africa? Where same virtual identical thing took place or is currently taking place?




Why doesn't Betfair offer Hong Kong-why not ask them?


Australia? No sorry, saw an article today abt the huge revenue hole thanks to lost tote business in the south.


Is there anywhere besides the UK that had tote handle go up?
likewise there is nowhere else that had fixed odds bookies either.
with an entire population used to betting fixed odds.

lots and lots of money was spent trying to get US sportsbettors to bet on sports exchanges prior to the latest internet crackdown?

and guess what? They didn't.




which all doesn't matter because the bottomline here is they contribute virtual nothing and take 10times that amount away.

[Foolish Pleasure]

For what it is worth,

Match up betting used in horse racing generally means one horse vs another.

Like some sportsbooks offer on the big races,
this horse -110 vs that horse -110.

[Charlie D]

Betfair pay what is asked by the Levy Board. Just like everyone else in UK.

10% , again 10%



They will also probably pay what US horsemem ask them also, if they think it is a fair deal, just like they do now via TVG/Betfair. Otherwise, NO exchange betting


Got IT????

[Foolish Pleasure]

Should try actually reading your own links for a change.

Worryingly, racing continues to
lose its market share of betting. When I
became Chairman, it stood at over 60%,
now it’s down nearer 40%.

SO basically since the invention of betfair, racing has dropped 20% of it's gambling market share in the UK.

Is that what is being portrayed here? Or am I constantly reading how exchange betting and Betfair saved UK horse racing?


Betfair is also the smallest contributor in that entire report,
of anyone taking bets on UK racing in the UK nobody pays less.


Try reading your own material for a change.

Levy Yield – 10 year record
2008-2009 £91.6m
2007-2008 £115.3m
2006-2007 £99.2m
2005-2006 £99.3m
2004-2005 £105.6m
2003-2004 £110.7m
2002-2003 £79.9m
2001-2002 £72.9m
2000-2001 £60.3m
1999-2000 £59.4m



What happened in 2005 that the growth suddenly stopped?


Here I will help, they were losing market share to everything else anyone could possibly bet on.


and for what it is worth, US racing needs billions to operate,
not tens of millions.

and UK racing is hardly in great shape right now as I read about the same shit there as here regarding less dates, handle down significantly et al.

[beertapper]

there are tracks that have asked betfair to not allow wagers on their exchange (eg never seen hong kong or japan)

i'm assuming del mar is ok with it?

[Charlie D]

SO basically since the invention of betfair, racing has dropped 20% of it's gambling market share in the UK.

Racings losing market share is now Betfairs fault..You could not make this stuff up.



Racing has competition bud for OUR pound

Do you want me to list some of the competition.

Football, Rugby, NFL, Baseball, Poker, Greyhounds, Slot machines, Cartoon (Virtual) racing betting and so on and so on and so on


The bookies in UK play a large part in the fall in revenue as it is they who promote the Slot machines in thier betting shops for idiots and addicts, they who have WALLS of Cartoon racing, Footie stuff, Poker, Bingo sites etc etc

They promote this stuff ALL the time because THEY don't have to pay 10% to anyone. Thus they make more profit

Bookies are the LEECHES on UK racing. It is they who negoiated only 10% and NOT Betfair.

These great people are now moving OFF SHORE so they don't have to PAY.

GOT IT????

[Seabiscuit@AR]

Foolish Pleasure

Australia has tote betting and fixed odds betting. Tote turnover has always been reasonably good in Australia

Betfair got its Australian licence back in 2006

http://www.theage.com.au/news/Busine...259981838.html

In the 2004-05 season tote turnover on Australian racing was 8.8 billion
In the 2005-06 season tote turnover on Australian racing was 8.8 billion
In the 2008-09 season tote turnover on Australian racing was 9.8 billion

In the 2004-05 season total turnover both tote and fixed odds was 11.7 billion
In the 2005-06 season total turnover both tote and fixed odds was 11.7 billion
In the 2008-09 season total turnover both tote and fixed odds was 14.4 billion

So most of the betting growth in Australian racing in the last few years has been with fixed odds betting. At the same time tote turnover is not dropping like a stone as people were predicting before Betfair started up in Australia. In fact betting on horses has been very healthy since Betfair started up

If we compared USA tote figures from 2005 or 2006 to the present what would be the drop? 20%? 30%?