Gural on Meadowlands future

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by The Hawk

A $50 million tax break for ONE casino, but Monmouth supposedly lost $6 million and horse racing is costing the state money?

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...=2011110129007

My conservatives friends are always telling that tax breaks aren't spending. I disagree, but they do have some sort point. I don't think the casino should get the tax break and Monmouth Park should not use tax payer money to stay open. As a side note, Monmouth Park lost closer to $10 million even after the casino subsidy. I really hope someone steps to the plate and runs Monmouth Park as stand alone horse racing facility. I do believe with right management and a gambler friendly attitude, it could make it.

[Hanover1]

With Jimmy Simpsons money in the fold, rest assure that the moves will be calculated, and in the interest of horsemen and bettors alike. Jimmy does not jump in, he does his homework.........

[The_Knight_Sky]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

Monmouth Park should not use tax payer money to stay open.

Monmouth Park uses casino subsidies given to NJ racing
to not lobby for slots at the track.

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

As a side note, Monmouth Park lost closer to $10 million
even after the casino subsidy.

You sure about that in 2010?

I mean...really, really sure

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

My conservatives friends are always telling that tax breaks aren't spending. I disagree, but they do have some sort point. I don't think the casino should get the tax break and Monmouth Park should not use tax payer money to stay open. As a side note, Monmouth Park lost closer to $10 million even after the casino subsidy. I really hope someone steps to the plate and runs Monmouth Park as stand alone horse racing facility. I do believe with right management and a gambler friendly attitude, it could make it.

The numbers have not been released yet. The NJSEA is still working on them and once they are officially released the loss will be in the 1m range for MP. There will be a 15m infusion by the state this year (2011)that money will come from the casino re-development fund.

[Robert Goren]

Let get something straight here, in 2010 Monmouth Park was run an agency of the state of New Jersey. If it were to lobby the state legislature for slots, it would need to use state funds to do it. That would perhaps the greatest abuse of state money in the history of the country. I doubt that even the liberal minded people of New Jersey would stand for that. It would have been the horse people who would have had to do the lobbying. But none of this matters because the horse people do not want a stand alone self sufficient race track in NJ.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

Let get something straight here, in 2010 Monmouth Park was run an agency of the state of New Jersey. If it were to lobby the state legislature for slots, it would need to use state funds to do it. That would perhaps the greatest abuse of state money in the history of the country. I doubt that even the liberal minded people of New Jersey would stand for that. It would have been the horse people who would have had to do the lobbying. But none of this matters because the horse people do not want a stand alone self sufficient race track in NJ.

This is one debate that you are clueless about. The NJSEA is the controlling entity of the Meadowlands and MP facilities. The NJSEA has a huge payroll combined with many ongoing issues of spending monies on projects that have caused many politicians to point fingers at this agency and ask what is going on. The Governor is looking at all aspects of the racing industry and based upon biased commission reports he is trying to appease those who are heavily trenched in Atlantic City but has met opposition along the way. He now realizes through the efforts of former Governor Codey that NJ may indeed need to expand their AC casino licenses only to other parts of the state. How does this affect racing, simple, the NJSEA owns and runs the Meadowlands Sports complex, it is some of the most coveted real estate in the world. Jon Hanson sees dollar signs when he envisions what the Meadowlands can bring to the state as far as revenue goes, but primarily his pocket first. The Meadowlands was paid for by the racing industry(exact percentages unknown). Why would the NJSEA give up the Meadowlands? It would if it was dismantled by the Governor thus leaving open a casino development headed by, yes you guessed it, Jon Hanson. The state has given the thoroughbred racing industry 15m from the casino re-development fund for 2011, this will continue in 2012 with 10m and 2013 with 5m. By late next year the state will have the internet poker gaming online and that will add another 11-23m per year to the horse racing industry. Also there will be 5 more OTW's set up in NJ thus adding another 13-27m to the industry, and creating jobs along the way. The Xanadu project has a new owner, the people who are associated with the Mall of America, eventually once they are up and running they will also push for a casino at the Meadowlands. Last but not least is the Atlantic City airport project which is years away but would need to use some of the land the current racetrack sits on. Thus giving hope that a third thoroughbred track will once again be operative in NJ and generating much needed revenue that this industry needs. In the near future there will be slots at the AC racecourse, bet on it!

[Phantombridgejumpe]

have to be the solution.

Look at Dover Downs and Parx for example. Are they surviving? Yes. Do they have good purses? Yes. Do they attract more than 500 racing fans a day to the track? Not even close.

I like horse racing T-Bred and Harness, I really do. I appreciate it puts a lot of people to work, I appreciate it is a nice thing to have in my home state. I really try to see that side of it. But I was at the Meadowlands in the 80's when you needed a reserved seat on a Friday or Saturday night, when there were lines 8-9 deep at a floor full of betting windows. I saw crowds of 20,000 all the time, and for huge events they went over 30,000 often.

I think I'd rather die they be on life support in this case.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Phantombridgejumpe

have to be the solution.

Look at Dover Downs and Parx for example. Are they surviving? Yes. Do they have good purses? Yes. Do they attract more than 500 racing fans a day to the track? Not even close.

I like horse racing T-Bred and Harness, I really do. I appreciate it puts a lot of people to work, I appreciate it is a nice thing to have in my home state. I really try to see that side of it. But I was at the Meadowlands in the 80's when you needed a reserved seat on a Friday or Saturday night, when there were lines 8-9 deep at a floor full of betting windows. I saw crowds of 20,000 all the time, and for huge events they went over 30,000 often.

I think I'd rather die they be on life support in this case.

What if the casinos and race-tracks were on an even playing field? Did you ever consider that? The Meadowlands was at one time the place to be. Imagine if they built casinos in that area of the state instead of AC. Imagine if the NJSEA marketed their product to the general public and stopped living in the 80's. The entire state of racing in NJ needs a new marketing approach, and if that means bringing slots in like Parx did then do it.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

Honestly, I haven't thought about the level playing field and really don't care to.

I'm all for a new marketing approach. I'm all for getting younger players, I'm all for new ideas and new technology and new marketing.

But I don't see the point of having 3,000 people in a building when 2,750 of them are playing slots/vlt's and 250 people are betting $80 each a day on the racing.

There were many people at Dover Downs who had no idea a harness race was taking place 200 feet from them.

You seem to be all for anything that will help the track survive and thrive and I understand that view. My view is if it can't survive on its own it should go away - - as much as I would really, really hate to see that happen.

[Robert Goren]

Is or is NJSEA a government agency? Who appoints the people who run it? Is it a private company with stock holders? Who is responsible for the shortfalls when they spend more than they take in? You can fancy it up with all the fancy names you want, but when push comes to shove it is the taxpayers who cover any losses that it incurs. Like I said before the horse people do not want a stand alone self sufficient race track. Places like Parx are great places for horse people, but are lousy places for the horse race better. I am a better and I never claimed to want anything other than a better deal for better. I haven't seen that happen at most racinos. In fact, most of the time when race tracks are converted into racinos things get worse for the better. Also like I said before I want what the horse people don't , that stand alone race track were things like the purses are dependent on the amount of money the horse race betters wager, not something like slot machine money. When a horse person can make money on a horse without it winning races, it is not good for the betters.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

Is or is NJSEA a government agency? Who appoints the people who run it? Is it a private company with stock holders? Who is responsible for the shortfalls when they spend more than they take in? You can fancy it up with all the fancy names you want, but when push comes to shove it is the taxpayers who cover any losses that it incurs. Like I said before the horse people do not want a stand alone self sufficient race track. Places like Parx are great places for horse people, but are lousy places for the horse race better. I am a better and I never claimed to want anything other than a better deal for better. I haven't seen that happen at most racinos. In fact, most of the time when race tracks are converted into racinos things get worse for the better. Also like I said before I want what the horse people don't , that stand alone race track were things like the purses are dependent on the amount of money the horse race betters wager, not something like slot machine money. When a horse person can make money on a horse without it winning races, it is not good for the betters.

The world-class, multi-billion dollar industry that the NJSEA created for the State brings the three "e's" to New Jersey -- economic development, entertainment, and ego -- from East Rutherford to Oceanport, from Camden to Piscataway, from Atlantic City to Wildwood. The NJSEA is proud of its continuing investment in its facilities and their positive impact on job creation and tourism. A continuing source of pride to the people of New Jersey, the NJSEA and its facilities are led by a Board of Commissioners and an outstanding management team, including some of the most respected executives in their field, who are prepared to meet the challenges of the 21st Century. This board consists of 16 members appointed by the Governor. There are also several "ex officio" members.

[onefast99]

When a horse person can make money on a horse without it winning races, it is not good for the betters.

If you mean the $1500 per horse that was given last year, that was to induce large fields and make it a win-win for the horseman and betters.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by onefast99

When a horse person can make money on a horse without it winning races, it is not good for the betters.

If you mean the $1500 per horse that was given last year, that was to induce large fields and make it a win-win for the horseman and betters.

I know a lot betters who think giving $1500 to a horse for running out the money is a bad idea. I want every horse in a race trying to win, not just running for feed money. I think most betters feel the same way. Anybody who thinks a 12 horse field with 7 or 8 horses not trying to win, but running for feed money is a win-win situation for horse racing has been smoking some funny smelling hay.

[The Bit]

WEG is doing the same pay to start routine soon, perhaps tonight. I know the initial reports from the first card drawn with this implemented were good. Big, full fields. But, like you said, how many are now just in it for the ride around? Now, you don't even have to finish 5th to get paid, just sit on the cones and make it a workout and come back next week.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

I think we get frustrated when we can't have what we want at the track. It seems like it SHOULD work, but the reality seems to be that there is not enough support there to make it work.

If you and I were to open a track with nice purses, the lowest takeout in the country, great TV feeds, free programs, great betting options etc.... but no slots or VLT's I think 9 times out of 10 we would be out of business within a year or two. And the 1/10 of the time it worked I think we would have our knees broken by somebody.

There just seem to be too many hands in the cookie jar for any track to do a trial run at what you are suggesting.