Michael Dickinson on Zenyatta..

[andymays]

Originally Posted by DanG

I would give it to Rachel as well, and by a wider margin then most. That is no knock on Z of course; but the filly was just that exceptional imo.

As far as ‘public opinion pools go…I’m the wrong one to comment; I’ll never equate consumption with validation concerning almost anything. I don’t purchase the #1 selling music, wine, hamburger or purchase socks by the gross at Wall Mart.


No doubt; but don’t underestimate the ‘regional thing. Read some of the Rachel comments pre-Mother Goose when she torched 2 opponents. “Dubious” was thrown around like a NY subway token.

I never knew that was your stance on surface Andy. Just kidding; again; I don’t subscribe to anything just because the majority gathers. Enjoy your New Year!

I think the "regional thing" was exacerbated by the Zenyatta tribute at Hollywood Park (Santa Anita was fine). Regional biases have always been there but the over the top nature of the tribute prompted some sharp off the record responses from some voters (I received a couple of emails about this and the comments were ones the voters would not say in public).

[DanG]

Originally Posted by andymays

I think the "regional thing" was exacerbated by the Zenyatta tribute at Hollywood Park (Santa Anita was fine). Regional biases have always been there but the over the top nature of the tribute prompted some sharp off the record responses from some voters (I received a couple of emails about this and the comments were ones the voters would not say in public).

I respectfully disagree Andy; regional biases were around long before we were born. They always will be and that’s not a bad thing either. From a gambling perspective its gold in an age when shippers and simulcasting are the norm.

I’ve lived in four different states; (NJ, Fla, Nevada and briefly in So Cal) and regional alliances exist in each and in most cases...even within the same state.

[Fingal]

Dickinson is just upset that Zenyatta didn't do her winning on Tapeta. Otherwise he'd be praising her & saying it was the surface that enabled her to achieve greatness.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by tzipi

Anyway Pace,it's when you start pointing out why I'd be so shocked. Should I check with you after every article I read to see if my feelings about it are ok?

I have no idea what you are trying to say here or what your agenda is...I'm baffled by your responses.

I never said she didn't have an easy campaign! I never said Zenyatta was the greatest.

I never claimed you said she didn't have an easy campaign and I never claimed you said Zenyatta was the greatest...again, I'm baffled.

I WAS shocked at his harsh comments about the horse.

And again, I can't understand why...because he trained Zenyatta's dam? What does that really have to do with Zenyatta facing little in the way of quality horses in her four appearances prior to the BC?

Again really don't think his opinion changed much after that BC win over that field IMO. You think he was blown away? If Yes you do,ok.

I have no idea...you haven't posted any quotes from Dickinson after Zenyatta ran in the BC...so how would I know?

"Big deal he trained her mother" Sorry Pace,again I know you have worked in every part of the buisness and know alot I guess.

Why would you say such a thing? Where I have ever claimed publicly to work in ANY part of the business? Once again, color me baffled.

Again,I was shocked at his "Most overrated thing" comment. Sorry I had that feeling when reading it.

Nobody should ever apologize for their beliefs or feelings. Not sure why you are...but when you post your feelings or beliefs for public consumption, please don't be surprised or upset when someone responds.

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I have no idea what you are trying to say here or what your agenda is...I'm baffled by your responses.I never claimed you said she didn't have an easy campaign and I never claimed you said Zenyatta was the greatest...again, I'm baffled.And again, I can't understand why...because he trained Zenyatta's dam? What does that really have to do with Zenyatta facing little in the way of quality horses in her four appearances prior to the BC?I have no idea...you haven't posted any quotes from Dickinson after Zenyatta ran in the BC...so how would I know?Why would you say such a thing? Where I have ever claimed publicly to work in ANY part of the business? Once again, color me baffled.Nobody should ever apologize for their beliefs or feelings. Not sure why you are...but when you post your feelings or beliefs for public consumption, please don't be surprised or upset when someone responds.

Oh my God Pace,much respect and you got one hell of a site,but let it go! I was just shocked by the harsh words or kind of the tone he portrayed. I'm baffled with the feedback because it was just a simple post about his harshness. Not Zenyatta,not the races,not anything but his words he used about her. That's all! You also said "big deal he trained the mother" as if you know that it doesn't matter to him or why would it matter to him. Well from my experience it does to alot trainers,is all I said. I posted the BC comment so people would know this was said before the BC and not after by Dickinson. Geez.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by tzipi

Oh my God Pace,much respect and you got one hell of a site,but let it go! I was just shocked by the harsh words or kind of the tone he portrayed. I'm baffled with the feedback because it was just a simple post about his harshness.

All I'm trying to do is explain to you why he was harsh with his words. What's wrong with that?

If you don't want any feedback in the future, simply mark your threads "PLEASE DON'T RESPOND."

Geeez.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by tzipi

Oh my God Pace,much respect and you got one hell of a site,but let it go! I was just shocked by the harsh words or kind of the tone he portrayed. I'm baffled with the feedback because it was just a simple post about his harshness. Not Zenyatta,not the races,not anything but his words he used about her. That's all! You also said "big deal he trained the mother" as if you know that it doesn't matter to him or why would it matter to him. Well from my experience it does to alot trainers,is all I said. I posted the BC comment so people would know this was said before the BC and not after by Dickinson. Geez.

Even though Dickinson trained Zenyatta's dam, what does that have to do with his feelings (pre BC) on her and who she has faced? Should he lie because he has some far off connection to her? Is he supposed to think every son and daughter of every sire and dam he has ever trained is a great horse?

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

All I'm trying to do is explain to you why he was harsh with his words. What's wrong with that?

If you don't want any feedback in the future, simply mark your threads "PLEASE DON'T RESPOND."

Geeez.

Ok you were explaining to me why Dickinson used those words. Ok you know why he used those words. ok I agree with him that she is and was hyped a bit. I just taken back by his constant ripping of her and by saying "thing" Was just my opinion. You agreed with his harshness,ok cool. I thought he could've chose different words than "she's the most overrated thing".

Just seems like he's mad at her and against her. Why? Number one, he trained her mother. Cool connection. Number two, he's for synthetics. Number three, Zenyatta was far from the most overrated thing in racing this year. Don't get his anger. Anyway,ok call me crazy,just my thoughts

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Even though Dickinson trained Zenyatta's dam, what does that have to do with his feelings (pre BC) on her and who she has faced? Should he lie because he has some far off connection to her? Is he supposed to think every son and daughter of every sire and dam he has ever trained is a great horse?

No Dahoss. As I already wrote,sires are a different because they produce tons of horses it's tough to even follow but I do know some trainers follow some progeny from big mares they have trained. I mean,if the horse is a good horse. I will stand by that because I have worked for numerous trainers and have asked that because I was curious. I follow progeny of favorite great mares I have followed and loved.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by tzipi

No Dahoss. As I already wrote,sires are a different because they produce tons of horses it's tough to even follow but I do know some trainers follow some progeny from big mares they have trained. I mean,if the horse is a good horse. I will stand by that because I have worked for numerous trainers and have asked that because I was curious. I follow progeny of favorite great mares I have followed and loved.

Was Vertigineux a good horse on the track? I know she has had success in the shed, but I didn't think she did much on track.

Just doesn't seem all that shocking to me.

[WinterTriangle]

The local papers here gave 4 full COLOR pages to the Arkansas Derby.......Papa Clem's photo took up an entire page. Bigger than life! Then they had a complete breakdown, history, and everything you could possibly ask, concerning the race.

How many regional horse races and horses are promoted that way in YOUR neck of the woods?

To me, this can only help horse racing, bring in more fans, and get people to the track.

So, for the "over the top" celebration of Zenyatta, people in Arkansas went crazy for Smarty Jones. I guess my question is why didn't the racing establishment in the east give Rachel a ticker tape parade and everything she deserved for her feats? Didn't want to spend the money, or couldn't organize it, or what?

I see no problem giving as much attention to a horse, any horse that has brought a LOT of people a LOT of joy. Whether it be Rachel, Zenyatta, or any other equine. Why does it have to come down to "who did he/she beat"?

If that were the biggest measure of a racehorse then we wouldn't have much left to celebrate. Maybe that is precisely why horse racing is dying. Perhaps there's no longer enough people into just enjoying HORSE RACING and the horses doing it, and are willing to show up and support the horses at the track.....

So, good for EVERY person who showed up in person for Zenyatta's parade. Good for EVERY person that went to see her race. Good for EVERY person who made a sign, and held it up. Good for every person who brought their young daughters to the track.

They didn't stay home complaining behind their computers.


As for this trainer's opinion, his expertise seems to be racing in Europe, and if in any other situation a foreigner insulted one of our horses you guys would be up in arms! But since it suits some of your argument, you're okay with it.

Further, how many trainers WOULD come out publically and diss a horse? Let's find an US racing expert to dump on some of the horses he trained. I really can't imagine Sheriffs doing that, or any of the horsemen that I consider have some "class".

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Fingal

Dickinson is just upset that Zenyatta didn't do her winning on Tapeta. Otherwise he'd be praising her & saying it was the surface that enabled her to achieve greatness.

This is a great point. No way he would call her out if she was a 'tapeta superstar'.

[Dahoss9698]

Rachel Alexandra ran in Arkansas, Louisiana, Kentucky, Maryland, New York and New Jersey this year. Where would they have held the ticker tape parade?

In New York they have had sendoffs for horses like California had for Zenyatta. Not to the extent California did, but I was at similar sendoffs for Fourstardave, Commentator and a few others I'm forgetting.

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Was Vertigineux a good horse on the track? I know she has had success in the shed, but I didn't think she did much on track.

Just doesn't seem all that shocking to me.

Not much on the track. Maybe she got hurt or they wanted her for breeding. Vertigineux ran 7 times for 2 wins but shes the dam on Balance who racked up tons of stakes wins,Where's Bailey(stakes winner) and Zenyatta(we know her record ). She's one hell of a dam!

Vertigineux has two horses coming out. One by Giants Causeway and another by Bernadini. Can't wait,because all of her kids are definately talented and big time runners!

[tzipi]

Also she's in foal to Henrythenavigator now.