S8? Really?

[Running Amok]

I was looking through some of my Brisnet Ultimate PPs to try and better understand how Bris assigns the "E", "E/P", "P" and "S" designations.

I've read explanations I found on the net. Such as the following:

Early (“E”): The horse must have the lead.

Early Presser (“EP”): The horse is comfortable on the lead or following the leader one to three lengths back.

Presser (“P”): Prefers to run mid-pack, about four to seven lengths behind the leader.

Sustainer (“S”): Prefers staying in the back of the pack in favor of a strong closing run.

That's all fine, but I could not find an actual formula that Bris uses to assign the various running style designations. I found how QSPs are calculated, but no precise method for assigning the running style appointments.

So as I said, I was looking through some of my past Bris PPs and came across this horse from a race at Gulfstream that has an S8 designation and I'm shaking my head trying to make sense of this.

Can anyone shed some light on how Bris assigns the "E", "E/P", "P" and "S" designations and how it's possible for this horse to be deemed an S and yet earns 8 QSPs?

[Running Amok]

Just for sh!ts and giggles, here's another horse from the same day at Gulfstream, but at the other end of the spectrum! We go from an S8 to E0.

An E that's never shown to have had the lead at the first or second call in any of her running lines

[ranchwest]

Originally Posted by Running Amok

I was looking through some of my Brisnet Ultimate PPs to try and better understand how Bris assigns the "E", "E/P", "P" and "S" designations.

I've read explanations I found on the net. Such as the following:

Early (“E”): The horse must have the lead.

Early Presser (“EP”): The horse is comfortable on the lead or following the leader one to three lengths back.

Presser (“P”): Prefers to run mid-pack, about four to seven lengths behind the leader.

Sustainer (“S”): Prefers staying in the back of the pack in favor of a strong closing run.

That's all fine, but I could not find an actual formula that Bris uses to assign the various running style designations. I found how QSPs are calculated, but no precise method for assigning the running style appointments.

So as I said, I was looking through some of my past Bris PPs and came across this horse from a race at Gulfstream that has an S8 designation and I'm shaking my head trying to make sense of this.

Can anyone shed some light on how Bris assigns the "E", "E/P", "P" and "S" designations and how it's possible for this horse to be deemed an S and yet earns 8 QSPs?

I have that horse as an E/P. Sometimes BRIS assignments are head scratchers.

[ranchwest]

Originally Posted by Running Amok

Just for sh!ts and giggles, here's another horse from the same day at Gulfstream, but at the other end of the spectrum! We go from an S8 to E0.

An E that's never shown to have had the lead at the first or second call in any of her running lines

I have that one as an N/A, not adequately identifiable. Recent races were not close up, but further back somewhat close.

Maybe BRIS also felt like this one "fell through the cracks" and defaulted it to E. I don't know.

[Running Amok]

Originally Posted by ranchwest

I have that horse as an E/P. Sometimes BRIS assignments are head scratchers.

They do seem hit or miss at times. I've been looking through my past Bris files and I'm seeing a lot of head scratchers. That makes me wonder how reliable they are. Especially when I can't seem to find any formula or set of rules that one could use to verify these assignments.

So should I assume there's no public information that demonstrates the method Bris uses to determine how these running style designations are assigned?

In other words, would I be correct in assuming Bris running style designations are basically a black box?

[Speed Figure]

The #7 Proverb went gate to wire in that race.

[ranchwest]

Originally Posted by Speed Figure

The #7 Proverb went gate to wire in that race.

Well, the Equibase chart shows Proverb 3rd after the first quarter, so not quite gate to wire. He was the 1.9/1 favorite, so it wasn't a big shock, but had he been listed as an E or E/P with 8 Quirin points, the odds may have been lower.

[Running Amok]

Originally Posted by Speed Figure

The #7 Proverb went gate to wire in that race.

Thanks, I hadn't look up the results. I was just showing that horse as an example of how Bris running style designations don't seem to make any sense sometimes.

And that is a prefect example because a horse that went gate to wire would NOT be what Bris states as an S running style.

So it's hard to rely on Bris running style designations. Especially when there's no public information on how they are derived.

[Running Amok]

Originally Posted by ranchwest

Well, the Equibase chart shows Proverb 3rd after the first quarter, so not quite gate to wire. He was the 1.9/1 favorite, so it wasn't a big shock, but had he been listed as an E or E/P with 8 Quirin points, the odds may have been lower.

Yes, the chart shows he was actually 3rd, 1 length off the lead at the 1/4 mile mark. But since this was a route race at a mile, the first call was actually at the half mile mark in which Proverb had the lead and never gave it up after that.

But you're correct, not quite gate to wire.

[Speed Figure]

The official running line for 1 mile is 4F, 6F, Stretch, Finish. That's gate to wire!

[ranchwest]

Originally Posted by Speed Figure

The official running line for 1 mile is 4F, 6F, Stretch, Finish. That's gate to wire!

The gate is at the first call? It would be proper to say he led at every call.

[JohnGalt1]

Before I handicap, I usually change about 25% of their designations.

Watch for field size.

Fourth place of a six horse field could be an S instead of a P.

[ranchwest]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt1

Before I handicap, I usually change about 25% of their designations.

Watch for field size.

Fourth place of a six horse field could be an S instead of a P.

Good point. I'd say that's about how many I have different from BRIS, too, though I've never tallied it.

[gabe]

do your own early speed gauges.

[Robert Fischer]

haven't used bris speed designations in a while, and don't know how common they are, but E 0, E 1, E 2 type of horses are a real thing. Chase and fade.

An S 8, or assuming a 'plodder' with top speed points doesn't really make sense.