Talkin Trainers

[turninforhome10]

Much talk has been made about pedigree, times, pace and such. But what about trainers?
I cut my teeth in this game mostly from the knowledge of Glynn Bernis
https://store.drf.com/acb/stores/1/PDF/cajun7.pdf
He had the pleasure of getting Tonka Wahkan to the Derby the year of the great Genuine Risk in 1980. "All the training in the world" "Tee Red told me, "can't replace the luck of a good trip". Tonka was badly cut down in both back legs and body sore from being beaten around. It is all in having a horse that can make the trip and a big part of this is having a trainer that can assess the company and train his horse in manner to get the perfect trip. Having a horse that is versatile enough to train and having the trainer is a big key to success in the Derby.
The above being said what trainer\horse combination looks like the perfect fit.
Right now I really like how high Kiaran McLaughlinis high on Frosted. Stripped him back to square one and horse responded in kind. I feel there will be a synergy with Kiaran's training style and the horse's maturity going forward. Showed the right running style in the Wood and looking what is left in the bottle be easily built upon. Gallop him up to the Derby with a couple of good 2min licks and one 5 fur easy and a blowout 4 days before. I really like this combo. Any thoughts?

[BlueChip@DRF]

Originally Posted by turninforhome10

Much talk has been made about pedigree, times, pace and such. But what about trainers?
I cut my teeth in this game mostly from the knowledge of Glynn Bernis
https://store.drf.com/acb/stores/1/PDF/cajun7.pdf
He had the pleasure of getting Tonka Wahkan to the Derby the year of the great Genuine Risk in 1980. "All the training in the world" "Tee Red told me, "can't replace the luck of a good trip". Tonka was badly cut down in both back legs and body sore from being beaten around. It is all in having a horse that can make the trip and a big part of this is having a trainer that can assess the company and train his horse in manner to get the perfect trip. Having a horse that is versatile enough to train and having the trainer is a big key to success in the Derby.
The above being said what trainer\horse combination looks like the perfect fit.
Right now I really like how high Kiaran McLaughlinis high on Frosted. Stripped him back to square one and horse responded in kind. I feel there will be a synergy with Kiaran's training style and the horse's maturity going forward. Showed the right running style in the Wood and looking what is left in the bottle be easily built upon. Gallop him up to the Derby with a couple of good 2min licks and one 5 fur easy and a blowout 4 days before. I really like this combo. Any thoughts?

Looks like Baffert trains his horses to avoid traffic by staying close up front.

[SecretAgentMan]

I believe you're on the right track with Frosted........love his pedigree, I think he would have beaten Upstart 2 races back if he didn't have the throat problem as he was in 1st place rolling down the stretch & just hit a brick wall.......the trainer knew he had a problem & supposedly fixed it.

My only question is, why change the jockey? I mean, he basically stripped the horse down & with only 1 race to run before the derby, he's hoping he corrected the problem........how will we know if this wasn't a fluke? A one time win.......only time will tell.

You will get over 30-1 on Frosted possibly......

I also like International Star with trainer Michael Maker......he's 3 for 3 in 2015. He has a good jockey as well. The trainer is important, but the jockey is more important.......I believe you have to have some luck in winning the derby, but your jockey has to create some luck as well.

How do you create luck? Good jockeys/horses combo create opportunities that open the door during the race that allow the jockey to drive the horse to spots that allow them.to get into a winning position.

[turninforhome10]

Originally Posted by SecretAgentMan

I believe you're on the right track with Frosted........love his pedigree, I think he would have beaten Upstart 2 races back if he didn't have the throat problem as he was in 1st place rolling down the stretch & just hit a brick wall.......the trainer knew he had a problem & supposedly fixed it.

My only question is, why change the jockey?

Sometimes horses overcoming throat surgery require a very gentle hand on the bit. Part of the reason for the flipping their palate is getting to keen. Understanding that the horse's gate and the breathing are linked.
This is a very informative and explains a lot about throat problems.
https://youtu.be/QsvS6gEBJuE?t=1943
It is graphic with regard to horse dissection but to understand the sheer mass of air moving through the animal you need to see the inside.
Personally had one horse that had this problem and before he was a cheap maiden. After- he won 5 races including allowance. We lost in a claimer after he was out of conditions. http://www.pedigreequery.com/cinbuster
It is scary for any animal to have breathing trouble. Horses would learn to stop themselves when breathing is compromised and thus the fade in FLA. The faster the run before the flipping of palate, the faster to stop due to inability to intake air and the higher degree of O2 demand due to energy metabolism.
So in my mind Frosted, and looking at Frosted as a dragster, he got a new fuel injection which he was then given a new transmission to handle the extra horsepower. He then got a new driver that is very good at feathering the throttle and getting the best 1/4 mile run out of his charge.
Getting the horse to trust all these new parts and perform to the highest standard takes a crew chief that can put it all together for that one big run.

[turninforhome10]

My best example of a trainer who really knew his horse, the rider he needed and the race he needed to run was the great Charlie Whittingham and Ferdinand in 1986. He is said to have announced his Derby winner on the backside at Saratoga, while grazing his magnificent chestnut in 1985.
The horse got the perfect trip and when Shoe dove to the rail when Broad Brush surged forward ( a horse that liked to get out), he needed a horse with courage and the stars aligned. Whittingham did an excellent job of sizing up his foes and training the horse for the trip
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[nads1420]

Originally Posted by turninforhome10

Sometimes horses overcoming throat surgery require a very gentle hand on the bit. Part of the reason for the flipping their palate is getting to keen. Understanding that the horse's gate and the breathing are linked.
This is a very informative and explains a lot about throat problems.
https://youtu.be/QsvS6gEBJuE?t=1943
It is graphic with regard to horse dissection but to understand the sheer mass of air moving through the animal you need to see the inside.
Personally had one horse that had this problem and before he was a cheap maiden. After- he won 5 races including allowance. We lost in a claimer after he was out of conditions. http://www.pedigreequery.com/cinbuster
It is scary for any animal to have breathing trouble. Horses would learn to stop themselves when breathing is compromised and thus the fade in FLA. The faster the run before the flipping of palate, the faster to stop due to inability to intake air and the higher degree of O2 demand due to energy metabolism.
So in my mind Frosted, and looking at Frosted as a dragster, he got a new fuel injection which he was then given a new transmission to handle the extra horsepower. He then got a new driver that is very good at feathering the throttle and getting the best 1/4 mile run out of his charge.
Getting the horse to trust all these new parts and perform to the highest standard takes a crew chief that can put it all together for that one big run.

man thats gross and informative

[nads1420]

If you like Frosted then do you have to sort of like Tencendur? It isnt like he dominated him and won by 10 lengths

[turninforhome10]

Originally Posted by nads1420

If you like Frosted then do you have to sort of like Tencendur? It isnt like he dominated him and won by 10 lengths

I liked the fact that he gave Frosted a good race but I think Frosted moves up and with the increase in class of company Tencedur becomes an average horse.
I like him running against NY bred 3yo even more.
In the Derby, I feel the speed is honest this year. That being said, which trainer has the most tractable horse so far?

[SecretAgentMan]

Originally Posted by turninforhome10

Sometimes horses overcoming throat surgery require a very gentle hand on the bit. Part of the reason for the flipping their palate is getting to keen. Understanding that the horse's gate and the breathing are linked.
This is a very informative and explains a lot about throat problems.
https://youtu.be/QsvS6gEBJuE?t=1943
It is graphic with regard to horse dissection but to understand the sheer mass of air moving through the animal you need to see the inside.
Personally had one horse that had this problem and before he was a cheap maiden. After- he won 5 races including allowance. We lost in a claimer after he was out of conditions. http://www.pedigreequery.com/cinbuster
It is scary for any animal to have breathing trouble. Horses would learn to stop themselves when breathing is compromised and thus the fade in FLA. The faster the run before the flipping of palate, the faster to stop due to inability to intake air and the higher degree of O2 demand due to energy metabolism.
So in my mind Frosted, and looking at Frosted as a dragster, he got a new fuel injection which he was then given a new transmission to handle the extra horsepower. He then got a new driver that is very good at feathering the throttle and getting the best 1/4 mile run out of his charge.
Getting the horse to trust all these new parts and perform to the highest standard takes a crew chief that can put it all together for that one big run.

Thanks man, very informative.......