Monmouth Park

[RunForTheRoses]

Originally Posted by alhattab

Pickle times are certainly tough, but Saturday cannot be used as a harbinger for the meet. Not sure if you live in the area but Saturday was more than rain it was a nor'easter. Wind, some flooding, and cold too. I'm surprised that many people were there. Even in high season when the track attracts some beach refugees on crummy days I doubt many people would have gone on a day like yesterday.

Unusual weather for this time of year. Rain, yes but not a storm. May have been the coldest racing day in the history of Monmouth Park including Breeders' Cup Friday.

It was real, real cold yesterday. I didn't go to the track but was out and about and with that rain and wind I was freezing.

Unfortunately, I do think Monmouth does face some challenges. Its a shame as it is a real nice track.

They should go back to the old traditional Saturday of Memorial Day.

[pandy]

I like Monmouth. The Jersey shore wouldn't be the same without it. I hope the track isn't too speed favoring this year. Yesterday it played fairly even though it was sloppy sealed.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Originally Posted by alhattab

Pickle times are certainly tough, but Saturday cannot be used as a harbinger for the meet. Not sure if you live in the area but Saturday was more than rain it was a nor'easter. Wind, some flooding, and cold too. I'm surprised that many people were there. Even in high season when the track attracts some beach refugees on crummy days I doubt many people would have gone on a day like yesterday.

Unusual weather for this time of year. Rain, yes but not a storm. May have been the coldest racing day in the history of Monmouth Park including Breeders' Cup Friday.

I was there and it was one of the worst days I have ever seen. Original plans were to just sit under the overhang by the finish line but the wind made it unbearable so we went inside. Add to that, they have changed their BYOB policy. Now they only allow coolers in the picnic areas, can no longer be by the building. Despite the weather they wanted everyone with a cooler to sit out in the rain. I kid you not. Unreal

[SuperPickle]

Originally Posted by alhattab

Pickle times are certainly tough, but Saturday cannot be used as a harbinger for the meet. Not sure if you live in the area but Saturday was more than rain it was a nor'easter. Wind, some flooding, and cold too. I'm surprised that many people were there. Even in high season when the track attracts some beach refugees on crummy days I doubt many people would have gone on a day like yesterday.

Unusual weather for this time of year. Rain, yes but not a storm. May have been the coldest racing day in the history of Monmouth Park including Breeders' Cup Friday.

I'd love to buy into this argument because I love Monmouth but Belmont had the same weather and was off about 5% overall handle and about 15% on track. Even if you gave Monmouth a 20-30% curve the numbers are still bad.

Given a track's handle is 70-80% off track local weather's impact is minimal on your overall handle.

Even disregarding that it's a business. The have fixed cost for both racing days and the meet so there's no mulligans.

The canary in the cold mine at Monmouth is always Memorial Day weekend. In 2015 they did $16 million. Last year it dropped to under $10 million. If they can't hit $9 million over the three days it's going to be ugly.

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by SuperPickle

I'd love to buy into this argument because I love Monmouth but Belmont had the same weather and was off about 5% overall handle and about 15% on track. Even if you gave Monmouth a 20-30% curve the numbers are still bad.

Given a track's handle is 70-80% off track local weather's impact is minimal on your overall handle.

Even disregarding that it's a business. The have fixed cost for both racing days and the meet so there's no mulligans.

The canary in the cold mine at Monmouth is always Memorial Day weekend. In 2015 they did $16 million. Last year it dropped to under $10 million. If they can't hit $9 million over the three days it's going to be ugly.

Agree Memorial Day weekend is far more important. If the weather is decent and the number s are weak that may indicate that the bettors have abandoned ship.

Seemingly nice crowd here today. They don't seem to be betting much but they sure want to eat the lines are crazy long.

[RunForTheRoses]

Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe

I was there and it was one of the worst days I have ever seen. Original plans were to just sit under the overhang by the finish line but the wind made it unbearable so we went inside. Add to that, they have changed their BYOB policy. Now they only allow coolers in the picnic areas, can no longer be by the building. Despite the weather they wanted everyone with a cooler to sit out in the rain. I kid you not. Unreal

Did they at least let people with coolers hang out, facing the grandstand it would be right most, across from and facing usually a cheese steak stand? I can't believe they enforced that on the utmost perimeter of the facility on a day like that.

[lamboguy]

for sunday, it looked like they had plenty of people there on television.

[SuperPickle]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

for sunday, it looked like they had plenty of people there on television.

They did they had 12,000. They wagered a massive $370,000.

However total handle was barely $2 million.

In 2015 they did $4.5 million a day. This year they didn't hit that in opening weekend. They're well on their way to another 20%+ drop in handle.

[onefast99]

Hey pickle thank you for the numbers yes they were bad but your comparison to Belmont takes the cake you can't compare a casino fueled track with a privately run facility. What were the numbers at favorites in Woodbridge and Hillsborough?

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by SandyW

Monmouth and Garden State was New Jersey racing, now all we have left is Monmouth.
Don't let Monmouth die, we must support them until they can find a new revenue source. Monmouth always a fun track that management has bent over backward for fan support.
Going to Monmouth after a morning at the beach was a great tradition.
SUPPORT MONMOUTH.

A revenue source is being worked on. VLTs are run by the NJ Lottery commission this is a possibility for the racetracks with little to no red tape. I'm sure there will be a few naysayers but there is hope for MP!

[Rutgers]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Hey pickle thank you for the numbers yes they were bad but your comparison to Belmont takes the cake you can't compare a casino fueled track with a privately run facility. What were the numbers at favorites in Woodbridge and Hillsborough?

Your comment draws light to another issue. MP does have brick and mortar OTB’s, which NYRA does not have. Both MP and NYRA have an ADW, however NYRA must compete in a competitive market, while MP has a monopoly in NJ (granted it’s shared with the harness tracks). DE tracks lack OTB’s and an ADW, and PA tracks only have a limited monopoly on ADW’s.

MP is struggling because poor management, not lack of non-racing revenue streams. Effective management is making effective use of the resources you do have.

Granted having slot/VLT slot revenues would help the pursues, but yesterday MP had nearly 12,000 people on track, ran a race card right in front of them, and they wagered a per person average of $31 on the card, or about $3.10 per race.

If you figure a take-out rate of 20%, the track on average got $6.20 per person. Parking and admission is $5 each, so in theory from a single person going to MP, the track got about 60% more for parking and admission than they got from their wagering. It’s not a good sign when a track makes that much more from parking/admission than it does from wagering.

MP can’t sell the product and/or they got the wrong 12,000 people in the track, VLT/slot fueled purses are not going to fix that. If you can’t get people to bet on your races when they are in your track, you are not going to be able to get them to bet your races when they are in their own living room or at another track/OTB.

I want MP & NJ racing to do well, but it is not going to happen until they get a better management team. I do not want to be a naysayer, but MP problems are deeper than a poor opening weekend and can’t be fixed by VLT/Slot and/or sports wagering.

[Rutgers]

Originally Posted by onefast99

A revenue source is being worked on. VLTs are run by the NJ Lottery commission this is a possibility for the racetracks with little to no red tape. I'm sure there will be a few naysayers but there is hope for MP!

In NJ, it is not the red-tape you need to worry about, it’s the in-fighting that always pops up.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Rutgers

Your comment draws light to another issue. MP does have brick and mortar OTB’s, which NYRA does not have. Both MP and NYRA have an ADW, however NYRA must compete in a competitive market, while MP has a monopoly in NJ (granted it’s shared with the harness tracks). DE tracks lack OTB’s and an ADW, and PA tracks only have a limited monopoly on ADW’s.

MP is struggling because poor management, not lack of non-racing revenue streams. Effective management is making effective use of the resources you do have.

Granted having slot/VLT slot revenues would help the pursues, but yesterday MP had nearly 12,000 people on track, ran a race card right in front of them, and they wagered a per person average of $31 on the card, or about $3.10 per race.

If you figure a take-out rate of 20%, the track on average got $6.20 per person. Parking and admission is $5 each, so in theory from a single person going to MP, the track got about 60% more for parking and admission than they got from their wagering. It’s not a good sign when a track makes that much more from parking/admission than it does from wagering.

MP can’t sell the product and/or they got the wrong 12,000 people in the track, VLT/slot fueled purses are not going to fix that. If you can’t get people to bet on your races when they are in your track, you are not going to be able to get them to bet your races when they are in their own living room or at another track/OTB.

I want MP & NJ racing to do well, but it is not going to happen until they get a better management team. I do not want to be a naysayer, but MP problems are deeper than a poor opening weekend and can’t be fixed by VLT/Slot and/or sports wagering.

MP doesn't have a monopoly there are four different companies running the OTWs in the state. Gural has Bayonne and the Meadowlands, Darby Development has Woodbridge(actually located in Fords)and Hillsborough which went with the right to have MP and also 4-njbets.com, Greenwood has Vineland and Penn Gaming has Gloucester, Freehold and Toms River. There are additional licenses available for both Gural and Darby. Neither has made a move to open another OTW facility(something the NJSEA is monitoring) and based on the capital outlay involved I don't believe either will until sports wagering(or a revenue source) comes to fruition for NJ tracks.
When you look at the on track handle where a company like Darby has the OTWs and the TVG wagering, the final numbers all have to be taken into context since the OTWs are profitable.
The current management at MP is doing what it can to stay alive, give them a little bit of credit since not many were interested in taking over the live racing in NJ when the RFP's came out in 2011. Since many compare the NYRA tracks to MP, remember the NYRA tracks have a solid portion of profits from the Aqueduct Casino fueling the purses as well as Parx does. In NJ if sports wagering or VLTs get approved the general fund will get a large portion of the profits and so will education. The purses will also see an infusion but VLTs aren't going to save racing by itself. The time is now for small tracks to reinvent themselves, the question is how do they do that?

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Rutgers

Your comment draws light to another issue. MP does have brick and mortar OTB’s, which NYRA does not have. Both MP and NYRA have an ADW, however NYRA must compete in a competitive market, while MP has a monopoly in NJ (granted it’s shared with the harness tracks). DE tracks lack OTB’s and an ADW, and PA tracks only have a limited monopoly on ADW’s.

MP is struggling because poor management, not lack of non-racing revenue streams. Effective management is making effective use of the resources you do have.

Granted having slot/VLT slot revenues would help the pursues, but yesterday MP had nearly 12,000 people on track, ran a race card right in front of them, and they wagered a per person average of $31 on the card, or about $3.10 per race.

If you figure a take-out rate of 20%, the track on average got $6.20 per person. Parking and admission is $5 each, so in theory from a single person going to MP, the track got about 60% more for parking and admission than they got from their wagering. It’s not a good sign when a track makes that much more from parking/admission than it does from wagering.

MP can’t sell the product and/or they got the wrong 12,000 people in the track, VLT/slot fueled purses are not going to fix that. If you can’t get people to bet on your races when they are in your track, you are not going to be able to get them to bet your races when they are in their own living room or at another track/OTB.

I want MP & NJ racing to do well, but it is not going to happen until they get a better management team. I do not want to be a naysayer, but MP problems are deeper than a poor opening weekend and can’t be fixed by VLT/Slot and/or sports wagering.

Are you positive about that $31 per capita number? That seems incredibly low for New Jersey, which is usually ranked in the top two or three highest capita per person states in the country. I find that hard to believe.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by pandy

Are you positive about that $31 per capita number? That seems incredibly low for New Jersey, which is usually ranked in the top two or three highest capita per person states in the country. I find that hard to believe.

I just realized that you were apparently talking about Saturday. The weather was terrible, so it's understandable, but Sunday the on track numbers weren't much better. That's terrible for any track but especially a track that's located near the beach in one of the richest states in the country.

I have to think that a lot of people who are at the track are using their phones to bet. Either that or there weren't really 12,000 people at the track.