When you know you are "THERE"

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

I was just trying to be funny, not trying to be mean pal.....

I found this in a UNLV research paper:

According to Revenue Ruling 76-96, (1976), rebates are considered a reduction in the
purchase price of a transaction and are not required to be included in the taxpayers gross income.
This ruling stands today, therefore if one were to interpret the cash back and comps from casinos
as a rebate it would not be incumbent on the taxpayer to include this as income.


I also, found it on an ADW website. That page is now gone but it clearly said that rebates are non taxable.

[2low]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

I was just trying to be funny, not trying to be mean pal.....

I found this in a UNLV research paper:

According to Revenue Ruling 76-96, (1976), rebates are considered a reduction in the
purchase price of a transaction and are not required to be included in the taxpayers gross income.
This ruling stands today, therefore if one were to interpret the cash back and comps from casinos
as a rebate it would not be incumbent on the taxpayer to include this as income.


I also, found it on an ADW website. That page is now gone but it clearly said that rebates are non taxable.

That's exactly what I was talking about That paper is wishful thinking in my opinion. The rebate rule is in place for purchase of personal goods, like my car example. The chances of the IRS considering rebates on gambling to be tax exempt are zero IMO. They simply reduce the cost of the bet, increasing the taxable gain if you win.

The reason they don't tax rebates on purchase of a refrigerator, for example, is because you are never subject to tax on the proceeds if you ever sell the refrigerator. Very different from gambling rebates.

[mountainman]

Several years ago I wagered online with a partner. She was bold. We went on a roll. Our winnings were unfathomable. For 5 hot minutes, we considered playing full time. We then lost a big chunk back. Things ended badly.

The final profits were considerable-but hardly "unfathomable."

Her skill set and mine meshed perfectly-our personalities not so much. It was a stormy affiliation.

But I needed her in order to win big-and she needed me.

Left strictly to my own devices, I'm neither bold nor disciplined enough to wager for a living.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Rutgers

Rebates are price adjustments.

If a person made $100,000 in wagers but received 7% back in rebates, on his/her taxes he/she would record $93,000 wagered. ($100,000-$7,000)

If his/her total winning were $100,000, he/she would have an income of $7,000. The $7,000 income would be subject to income tax at the federal level. (winnings minus amount wagered or $100,000-$93,000)

Likewise, if his/her total winning were $95,000, he/she would have an income of $2,000.

For the most part from a tax liability view for those who itemize their deductions, it doesn’t matter whether rebates are considered income vs. price adjustments, provided the tax rate for gambling winnings is the same as what it would be for rebates. It should be noted, however, it is not a choice. In order to properly file a federal tax form, rebates must be treated as a price adjustment.

Rebates being treated as price adjustments does provide an advantage to the player who does not itemize their deductions. In the first example, instead of being tax on $107,000 (or $100,000 winnings plus $7,000 rebate) the player is taxed on only $100,000. In the second example, the player is taxed only on $95,000, not $102,000.

Your example in your last paragraph doesn't make logical sense in that a non-professional gambler would end up itemizing solely by virtue of the gambling losses.

[NorCalGreg]

Never gotten a rebate in my life....but I can guarantee you if I was getting thousands a year in rebates I would know a hell of a lot about them.

LOL...Twinspires now shows your "Elite Wagering Credits" when logging in.

Probably get a Form 207-B "ELITE WAGERING CREDIT" to be added to income

[AltonKelsey]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Several years ago I wagered online with a partner. She was bold. We went on a roll. Our winnings were unfathomable. For 5 hot minutes, we considered playing full time. We then lost a big chunk back. Things ended badly.

The final profits were considerable-but hardly "unfathomable."

Her skill set and mine meshed perfectly-our personalities not so much. It was a stormy affiliation.

But I needed her in order to win big-and she needed me.

Left strictly to my own devices, I'm neither bold nor disciplined enough to wager for a living.

Folks should take this to heart, coming from someone that actually HAS a clue.

It's a very tough game, and even tougher on the PSYCHE. Maintaining equilibrium and focus is the HARDEST part of the game.

The handicapping and money management can be mastered, the emotional stuff will do many in.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

Folks should take this to heart, coming from someone that actually HAS a clue.

It's a very tough game, and even tougher on the PSYCHE. Maintaining equilibrium and focus is the HARDEST part of the game.

The handicapping and money management can be mastered, the emotional stuff will do many in.

Agree 100%... the handicapping is the easiest of the three.

How in hell does anyone ever succeed in this game---when picking winners is just the beginning? I admire anyone that can.

[thaskalos]

IMO...it largely depends on what other employment options are available to the particular horseplayer. If he is an academically credentialed "professional"...then he is likely to keep his day-job, and retain gambling as a hobby. But if he works in a deli...then he will probably foster dreams of earning his living at the track.

The sad part is that some of us discovered this game in our youth...and it interfered with our academic studies.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

Folks should take this to heart, coming from someone that actually HAS a clue.

It's a very tough game, and even tougher on the PSYCHE. Maintaining equilibrium and focus is the HARDEST part of the game.

The handicapping and money management can be mastered, the emotional stuff will do many in.

WORD

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by NorCalGreg

How in hell does anyone ever succeed in this game---when picking winners is just the beginning?

The answer to your question.....Having meaningful goals.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

In order to be a professional player you must have a 'brutal' honesty about your strengths and weaknesses, and you must eliminate the weaknesses fast or they will eliminate you!!!

You must learn to play in a virtually unemotional state where you have no emotion and no excuses with a result of a wager.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by BELMONT 6-6-09

In order to be a professional player you must have a 'brutal' honesty about your strengths and weaknesses, and you must eliminate the weaknesses fast or they will eliminate you!!!

You must learn to play in a virtually unemotional state where you have no emotion and no excuses with a result of a wager.

What you say here is no doubt true but it brings us to the interesting question, "Why are we in this game to begin with...." What exactly do we wish from it....?

I need to think about that one for a long while...how about you...?

What is in it for you?

[2low]

Along these lines, I can't imagine any form of gambling is any different than poker, which I have lots of experience with.

The fun must be in learning what the right decisions are, following through with the right decisions and feeling good about the outcome, win or lose if you followed the plan.

A short term results-oriented person will be emotionally chewed up, swallowed and shat. Tilt is the devil.

[rsetup]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

Folks should take this to heart, coming from someone that actually HAS a clue.

It's a very tough game, and even tougher on the PSYCHE. Maintaining equilibrium and focus is the HARDEST part of the game.

The handicapping and money management can be mastered, the emotional stuff will do many in.

I don't disagree that a life of that sort would be difficult psychologically. But I don't think the difficult part is 'maintaining equilibrium and focus'. Nor do I believe that the 'emotional' is more difficult to master than the handicapping (and money management) component.

[Rutgers]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Your example in your last paragraph doesn't make logical sense in that a non-professional gambler would end up itemizing solely by virtue of the gambling losses.

You’re right, in the example the player would be better off itemizing his/her deductions, and hopefully he/she lives in a no-income tax state or a state that allows (full) deductions of gambling losses. Depending on his/her filing status and other income, he/she could also face an Alternative Minimum Tax situation well.

A better example would have been a horseplayer who wagered $5,200 with a 3% rebate and won $6,000. If he/she takes the standard deduction, he/she benefits by having the rebate being a price reduction and not taxable income, because he/she is paying tax on $6,000 and not $6,156. (granted they only profited $956 and are paying tax on over 6 times that amount)

The point I had hope to illustrate was rebates are price adjustments and not income, but for most of those that do itemize it makes no real financial difference. (Though in some cases it would) I mentioned the impact on the player that does not itemize because over 2/3 of the US tax payers do not itemized their deductions, but I should of adjusted the example to reflect more realistic numbers.