When you know you are "THERE"

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by 2low

Honest question, not trying to be a jerk. I assume you are relying on the fact that rebates on purchases in general are non-taxable (getting a $2K rebate when buying a car, for instance)?

If so, I'll grant that rebates on gambling wagers are a gray area in that, to my knowledge, the IRS has never stated one way or the other whether gambling rebates are exempt under the law. However, I have a difficult time believing they would consider a rebate on a wager to be the same as a rebate on the purchase of a personal item. But, as I said, they haven't ruled as far as I know.

I am not eligible for rebates, so I don't care to do more research. But, now that I've thought about it, if I were eligible for rebates and made lots of money from them, I'd probably treat them as tax free and hold tax payment money in reserve until the statute of limitations passed on my return just in case.

By the way, I'd love a source if you have one and I'm completely wrong. I'm not opposed to being corrected, and it would add a lot to what could be a very fun thread IMO.

And now, to answer your question: I can't depend on horse racing for a living right now, and probably never will. I think gambling profitably as a side income is great. However, relying on gambling as the sole source of income would not be for me.

Having lived through the on-line poker fiasco of a few years ago, I don't trust that it can't all be taken away with the swipe of some jerk's pen. Three or ten years of professional horse handicapping isn't a very good resume stuffer.

Also, who's to say that my edge (if I had one) would survive? Age may make me dumber than I am already What then? I'll admit that I am jealous of people who can do it though...

I was just trying to be funny, not trying to be mean pal.....

I found this in a UNLV research paper:

According to Revenue Ruling 76-96, (1976), rebates are considered a reduction in the
purchase price of a transaction and are not required to be included in the taxpayers gross income.
This ruling stands today, therefore if one were to interpret the cash back and comps from casinos
as a rebate it would not be incumbent on the taxpayer to include this as income.


I also, found it on an ADW website. That page is now gone but it clearly said that rebates are non taxable.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I can't agree with what you say here. What percentage of the working population would you say gets up at sunrise...so they could spend the next 10+ hours of the day, first preparing for...and then working at a job that they dislike...for a boss who they think dislikes THEM? And then they keep doing this for the next 40 years or so. Is THIS much of a "well-rounded life"? Professional gambling is just like any other "job"...except that it affords you the freedom to do your work on your OWN terms...instead of forcing you to operate on someone ELSE'S schedule. Your "job" cannot supply you with the "life balance" that you seek...that's what your NON-WORKING life is for.

Yes...the professional gambler has to provide for his own "employment benefits"...but every day of his life is alive with new possibilities. He trades in the "security" of a regular paycheck...for the freedom and "aliveness" that he feels every day. I know...I know. You keep reading here about how "exhausting" professional gambling is...and how "tormented" the pro gambler is...because he doesn't receive any "public recognition".

Don't believe a word of it!

The professional gambler can't wait for the next day to come...and if he needs a "trophy"...he goes out and BUYS one. Not having to bow his head down to a boss, and making up his own schedule...makes up for whatever negative side-effects his "job" may cause. Is this lifestyle for EVERYONE? Of course not...nor SHOULD it be. But for some select individuals...it's the only life that they care to lead.

After all...we only go around once in this life.

I don't think a professional gambler would lead a miserable life.

If you wake up at 11 am instead of 6 am, handicap a card that starts at 4 pm , wager $2000 and make $200 for the day (plus $200 in rebates) VS. being stressed and miserable from 6 am till 6 pm at a "job", I see the former as more fun.

Many jobs offer no flexibility. Being a PG, gives you flexibility. You can sleep late, work from home, babysit, go to a DR, go the gym mid day etc.

I personally handled about $1 Million this year. That was with a new FT (OVERTIME) career change this year. I many times wonder if I could handle $2-$3 million if I didn't work 50 hours a week.

That's $200K-$300K in rebates in that scenario.

Getting back to mental sanity....If you really miss the human interaction the workforce offers, you could work P/T or attend many different types of community business events, if you miss the action of the workforce.

Plus, I am sure many here have said to themselves, shoot, if I wasn't so busy, I would've noticed this horse or that trip etc.

Think of how much more you would find IF you had additional time.

[no breathalyzer]

shieeeeeeeeet all i been doing lately has been working.. hardly any time to look at racing forms.... trust me i wish i didn't have to work.. but with a kid its the smart thing to do.. on the bright side i have a pretty decent bankroll i'm waiting to explode with once it slows down after the holidays at my job

[no breathalyzer]

i been waiting to strike with vigorous force on the rite horse for a while now.. when i do find it there is no turning back! in the meantime i will keep on banking up till its time to strike.. i proud of the discipline i have displayed this yr.. truly great progress in that category... think its has something to do with having to work for income.. who wants to work all weak and be reckless with the money you had to work all week for? When you gambling sometimes the $$ switches hands so fast it doesn't seem real at times

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I could never do it.

1-I do not consistently win enough to justify not working
2-Racing is one thing that I love, specifically the gambling. I like to keep it in in this regard versus turning it into a full time job. Yes it does afford you the ability to have a flexible schedule, but taking it from a fun day out to grinding every day just isnt for me.
3-Too much of any good thing is bad. Even when I go on my binge vegas trips after a couple days it just gets old. Something has to be said to looking forward to something. Whether it is that one day a week to enjoy yourself or eating pizza on the weekend after dieting all week, it keeps it special in my opinion.

To each their own, but I am also pretty sure my wife would divorce me if I was at the track all the time, especially on the weekends when the tracks I like to play are running and she is off.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe

I could never do it.

1-I do not consistently win enough to justify not working
2-Racing is one thing that I love, specifically the gambling. I like to keep it in in this regard versus turning it into a full time job. Yes it does afford you the ability to have a flexible schedule, but taking it from a fun day out to grinding every day just isnt for me.
3-Too much of any good thing is bad. Even when I go on my binge vegas trips after a couple days it just gets old. Something has to be said to looking forward to something. Whether it is that one day a week to enjoy yourself or eating pizza on the weekend after dieting all week, it keeps it special in my opinion.

To each their own, but I am also pretty sure my wife would divorce me if I was at the track all the time, especially on the weekends when the tracks I like to play are running and she is off.

So, you don't go to the track on Saturdays or Sundays/holidays? Only during the week?

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by no breathalyzer

i been waiting to strike with vigorous force on the rite horse for a while now.. when i do find it there is no turning back! in the meantime i will keep on banking up till its time to strike.. i proud of the discipline i have displayed this yr.. truly great progress in that category... think its has something to do with having to work for income.. who wants to work all weak and be reckless with the money you had to work all week for? When you gambling sometimes the $$ switches hands so fast it doesn't seem real at times

Discipline is paramount. Good man NB

If I ever turn back to the player I was years ago, I'd shoot myself. I've had a slow progression towards additional discipline for a long while.

No going back.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe

...2-Racing is one thing that I love, specifically the gambling. I like to keep it in in this regard versus turning it into a full time job. ...

Agree completely. Every time I've gotten the most sour on handicapping and betting has been when its inadvertently turn into something of a job. Ironically, it seems more likely to happen when things are going pretty well. Like a little success pushes me even farther into obsession whereas a bad spell will cool me off generally. I try now to enjoy it and catch myself before it happens. There aren't exactly dozens of exciting things I look forward to and enjoy doing in the course of a day, week, whatever, so I have to make sure that I enjoy this one.

[garyscpa]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

I was just trying to be funny, not trying to be mean pal.....

I found this in a UNLV research paper:

According to Revenue Ruling 76-96, (1976), rebates are considered a reduction in the
purchase price of a transaction and are not required to be included in the taxpayers gross income.
This ruling stands today, therefore if one were to interpret the cash back and comps from casinos
as a rebate it would not be incumbent on the taxpayer to include this as income.


I also, found it on an ADW website. That page is now gone but it clearly said that rebates are non taxable.

See bolded above. A reduction in the purchase price of your bets results in additional taxable income or less loss.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by garyscpa

See bolded above. A reduction in the purchase price of your bets results in additional taxable income or less loss.

Are you really a CPA? Of course, you're reducing the purchase price--at the same time reducing the income by deducting rebates and comps--where are you getting ADDITIONAL INCOME?

[Rutgers]

Rebates are price adjustments.

If a person made $100,000 in wagers but received 7% back in rebates, on his/her taxes he/she would record $93,000 wagered. ($100,000-$7,000)

If his/her total winning were $100,000, he/she would have an income of $7,000. The $7,000 income would be subject to income tax at the federal level. (winnings minus amount wagered or $100,000-$93,000)

Likewise, if his/her total winning were $95,000, he/she would have an income of $2,000.

For the most part from a tax liability view for those who itemize their deductions, it doesn’t matter whether rebates are considered income vs. price adjustments, provided the tax rate for gambling winnings is the same as what it would be for rebates. It should be noted, however, it is not a choice. In order to properly file a federal tax form, rebates must be treated as a price adjustment.

Rebates being treated as price adjustments does provide an advantage to the player who does not itemize their deductions. In the first example, instead of being tax on $107,000 (or $100,000 winnings plus $7,000 rebate) the player is taxed on only $100,000. In the second example, the player is taxed only on $95,000, not $102,000.

[Dave Schwartz]

Garyscpa is certainly right about this.

End4Me if you are subject to U.S. taxes, they will come for you.


My take on work/business versus gambling is that:

1. If you make $X in your day job or business with limited or no risk, then you need to make at least $2X in a gambling endeavor to compensate you for the risk.

2. Getting a 7% rebate does not necessarily equate to 7% profit, unless, of course, you are breaking even (or better) on the flat portion.

3. For me there is also the quality-of-life issue. Successfully gambling for income is not a stroll though the park. It is a time-sensitive and demanding job.


Personally, I have made two efforts at full-time play. The first, back in the late 1980s, was when I was always playing on a short bankroll. Frankly, I did remarkably well.

Started each month with only $500-$800 and by the end of the month had made enough money to pay rent, feed the family, etc. It was a grueling day - 6:30am to 10:30 at night, 5 or 6 days a week. A short bank makes for a real grind cycle.

The 2nd time was 2 years ago this month. I committed to playing 4-6 hours per day 4 days per week (Thu-Sun). After about 3 weeks I was burned out pretty badly, plus my business was suffering.

It is a very intense work week.

Truthfully, I think that my desire to be a full-time horse player has just passed.

Don't misunderstand - I love the game. And I especially enjoy beating the game with a system I created. But to do it by a time schedule is just a lot like work.


Dave

[rsetup]

Never. You're never anywhere for any appreciable period, according to Heracltus.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by Rutgers

Rebates are price adjustments.

If a person made $100,000 in wagers but received 7% back in rebates, on his/her taxes he/she would record $93,000 wagered. ($100,000-$7,000)

If his/her total winning were $100,000, he/she would have an income of $7,000. The $7,000 income would be subject to income tax at the federal level. (winnings minus amount wagered or $100,000-$93,000)

Likewise, if his/her total winning were $95,000, he/she would have an income of $2,000.

For the most part from a tax liability view for those who itemize their deductions, it doesn’t matter whether rebates are considered income vs. price adjustments, provided the tax rate for gambling winnings is the same as what it would be for rebates. It should be noted, however, it is not a choice. In order to properly file a federal tax form, rebates must be treated as a price adjustment.

Rebates being treated as price adjustments does provide an advantage to the player who does not itemize their deductions. In the first example, instead of being tax on $107,000 (or $100,000 winnings plus $7,000 rebate) the player is taxed on only $100,000. In the second example, the player is taxed only on $95,000, not $102,000.

A professional gambler would always itemize, just by the nature of his business, right?
I see your point Garyscpa....I stand corrected.

[EMD4ME]

I always pay the correct amount of taxes. That's 1 thing I never miss with.

I actually over pay due to my massive amount of w-2 G's. Yes I do itemize but you can't fully itemize gambling dollars in NYS or NYC.

Such is life. I swallowed that years ago.