Hawthorne, the new Gulfstream? - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

cj · 01-12-2009, 07:02 PM

What is with all the missing pace times lately? Four races Saturday, a couple on Thursday and one on Wednesday too. I thought Gulfstream had bad timer market cornered.

Bruinswin · 01-12-2009, 07:21 PM

Ya what's going on with that track?

Steve 'StatMan' · 01-12-2009, 09:01 PM

Timer system has been bad for years. Plus to keep expenses down, they do not hire an employee from the teletimer company - the have a pressbox employee activate and control the switches before/during the race, among their other duties.

I should add that the non-use of teletimer employees has occured for at least 2 years now, and that the teletimer system issues have gone on for many years, not sure if worse now or just seems worse due to errors in operation.

cj · 01-12-2009, 09:04 PM

They have been known to miss a few, but never saw a batch like this. Sam Houston and Lone Star are others with lingering timer issues.

Yavapai installed a new one and problems for a while this year, but seemed to get things going well. Yavapai could afford a new system, but GP and HAW not...hard to believe.

Steve 'StatMan' · 01-12-2009, 09:07 PM

If they aren't putting up any times, that means they aren't even getting manual times for the fractions.

As I understand it, the wiring has been in the ground for many decades.

cj · 01-12-2009, 09:09 PM

Right...I don't know anybody that does manual pace times when the timer malfunctions. It isn't hard to do off of video if you know where the timing starts.

sandpit · 01-12-2009, 09:29 PM

I know the chart callers in KY used to handtime all the races just in case the teletimer malfunctioned.

cj · 01-12-2009, 09:34 PM

Right, but not pace calls, just final time. This is probably going to spur me on to add the missing times to my program and database from video. Every little bit can help. I'm still recovering from studying all the different turf course and about distances and rail positions though! (176 configurations in the US and Canada!)

CincyHorseplayer · 01-13-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj

Right, but not pace calls, just final time. This is probably going to spur me on to add the missing times to my program and database from video. Every little bit can help. I'm still recovering from studying all the different turf course and about distances and rail positions though! (176 configurations in the US and Canada!)

I've often wondered about the nightmare task of making speed/pace figs for turf races because of so much data(configurations you mention) and so little data(few races/dist).How are pars even established??Does it take a 2-3-4-5 year database to have enough info to be accurate??

Even if somebody was a projected time master what do you think the error fact is in this endeavor CJ??

Plus I was just curious.The speed of a turf course is going to be reflected in the actual times but because there may only be a few routes a day it might be hard to gauge.I noticed the first 5 days at Tampa the turf course was quick but since it has seemed dull-slow.I always wondered if you constructed a variant from only internal times vs pars if it would be more accurate than the actual 1/2,3/4,final etc???

You deal with a lot more info than I do so I thought I'd ask you.I've crudely made a half mile fig(from 1/4 to 3/4)then a closing fig(3/4 to final time) in conjunction with the Beyers and have had some success.Do you think this is folly and madness or what??!!

JustRalph · 01-13-2009, 09:56 AM

with today's technology, this is inexcusable.

Just another symptom............

cj · 01-13-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CincyHorseplayer

I've often wondered about the nightmare task of making speed/pace figs for turf races because of so much data(configurations you mention) and so little data(few races/dist).How are pars even established??Does it take a 2-3-4-5 year database to have enough info to be accurate??

Even if somebody was a projected time master what do you think the error fact is in this endeavor CJ??

Plus I was just curious.The speed of a turf course is going to be reflected in the actual times but because there may only be a few routes a day it might be hard to gauge.I noticed the first 5 days at Tampa the turf course was quick but since it has seemed dull-slow.I always wondered if you constructed a variant from only internal times vs pars if it would be more accurate than the actual 1/2,3/4,final etc???

You deal with a lot more info than I do so I thought I'd ask you.I've crudely made a half mile fig(from 1/4 to 3/4)then a closing fig(3/4 to final time) in conjunction with the Beyers and have had some success.Do you think this is folly and madness or what??!!

It can be done, and I wouldn't do it if i didn't think the value was there. I certainly don't think the figures are perfect and they are tough to make, but in the end, it gives me an edge I think. I do construct a variant for the pace call, but I only do it in comparison to the final time, not on any type of class pars.

Thomas Roulston · 01-14-2009, 03:44 AM

When I first saw the title of this thread I wondered what it could possibly be about, since when it comes to the way the two tracks are configured, you couldn't come up with more polar opposites than Gulfstream and Hawthorne.

On the one extreme, look at how convex the new Gulfstream's oval is, in that nearly 59% of its surface is on the turns (assuming the distance between the finish line and the first turn is 330 feet, each of the straightaways measure just 1,228 feet while around both of the turns it is 1,742 feet).

Then note how concave the Hawthorne oval is, with only about 43% of the total circumference falling on the turns - 1,136 feet, with the distance from the last turn to the finish line being 1,320 feet and there being 184 feet from the finish line to the first turn (1,504 feet altogether).