Summit 2: Nuclear Bungaloo

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Summit just ended abruptly. President heading to the hotel then Air Force One. Joint signing has been cancelled...

He's supposed to give comments in 40 minutes or so...

This sounds like something else is up.....Has India/Pakistan turned into a bigger problem?.....Checking links for that right now.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Summit just ended abruptly. President heading to the hotel then Air Force One. Joint signing has been cancelled...

He's supposed to give comments in 40 minutes or so...

But they were getting along together so well.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

This sounds like something else is up.....Has India/Pakistan turned into a bigger problem?.....Checking links for that right now.

Routine fighting today.

Pakistan captured a pilot from a downed MiG. It's going to escalate a bit more but Pakistan is realizing it's getting to the point of slug fest and doesn't want that...

More likely he's spun out from Cohen and this is a chance to steal back headlines in the morning.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Routine fighting today.

Pakistan captured a pilot from a downed MiG. It's going to escalate a bit more but Pakistan is realizing it's getting to the point of slug fest and doesn't want that...

More likely he's spun out from Cohen and this is a chance to steal back headlines in the morning.

I've got the same info.....Russia offering to mediate situation as the only new wrinkle..

[elysiantraveller]

Best news... per White House no deal reached. Of course we have to wait for Trump's comments though...

Twitter

__________________
Dumbest timeline confirmed...

[ultracapper]

Good for Trump. Beat that little piece of shite into the turf. Don't give him jack until we know what's in their closet.

I agree that there may be bigger fish to fry on the sub-continent right now. Hopefully, India and Pakistan just start growling at each other real loud for awhile, and then determine this round is played out.

[ReplayRandall]

I've got to be honest, this was not a win for Trump and he's on a losing streak right now.....Needs to come back stateside, regroup and go on the offensive here at home ASAP....

No more defensive actions, no matter what.

[elysiantraveller]

We aren't even in the same Zip Code and have been getting played...

This was a mistake and we should have never started this process and legitimized the regime a year ago.

BUT

At least Trump did the right thing and walked without signing bullshit and giving extra on top of it like Signapore.

He's still going to get killed for it though...

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

I've got to be honest, this was not a win for Trump and he's on a losing streak right now.....Needs to come back stateside, regroup and go on the offensive here at home ASAP....

No more defensive actions, no matter what.

What do you believe would have constituted a win? I think Ely said earlier that anything other than verifiable numbers was just smoke up Trump's butt. I tend to agree with that, and I don't see anyway that the U.S. has a stick big enough to force Kim to show Trump anything.

You intimated that the Korea talks and the China talks are related in a way. That makes a ton of sense. It would make sense that they go hand in hand, and what could NKorea possibly do if China started playing nice with the U.S.? Nuke Beijing?

[Ocala Mike]

Trump on his way home with no agreement - it's like not even getting a kiss on your second date. Can we call it Summitus Interruptus?

[woodtoo]

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike

Trump on his way home with no agreement - it's like not even getting a kiss on your second date. Can we call it Summitus Interruptus?

Sure.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

...
He's still going to get killed for it though...

And he deserves credit for actually playing to his strengths as billed and didn't make a deal for the political optics of simply being able to say mission accomplished. If you are to take the dealmaker characterization seriously at all, then he is probably 1-5 to walk out without a deal at this early stage in a dance disregarding political blow back. I don't see the problem.

And since you are now strongly opposed to any deviation from prior policy (at one point you weren't nearly as opposed to his courting the regime), I will again point out that I really don't understand what your play is if you can't take this approach. Just wait out till everyone dies? Hope it happens before they do something ultra stupid? Most of out previous policy did nothing but yield the same undesirable results. They are backed into a corner and they react consistently. For this brief window, he is giving this clown an out, a chance to walk out of the corner forward. If it fails, it fails. Oh well, just another chapter in that novel of failure, but at least the sudden plot shift offered a shaft of light into less of the same.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

And he deserves credit for actually playing to his strengths as billed and didn't make a deal for the political optics of simply being able to say mission accomplished. If you are to take the dealmaker characterization seriously at all, then he is probably 1-5 to walk out without a deal at this early stage in a dance disregarding political blow back. I don't see the problem.

And since you are now strongly opposed to any deviation from prior policy (at one point you weren't nearly as opposed to his courting the regime), I will again point out that I really don't understand what your play is if you can't take this approach. Just wait out till everyone dies? Hope it happens before they do something ultra stupid? Most of out previous policy did nothing but yield the same undesirable results. They are backed into a corner and they react consistently. For this brief window, he is giving this clown an out, a chance to walk out of the corner forward. If it fails, it fails. Oh well, just another chapter in that novel of failure, but at least the sudden plot shift offered a shaft of light into less of the same.

I'm not going to kill him from walking away... I'm going to kill him for really starting this whole charade in the first place.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Since essentially 2006 when North Korea had their first detonation there has been the long slow build-up of extreme pressure on the Regime. Bush started, Obama continued it, and Trump did a great job early continuing it. By taking the original Summit like he did and not extracting anything meaningful from it he threw a good amount of that pressure away. Even more with his constant statements after the summit. Action = Reaction.

Now if we read between the lines of that presser last night you realize that we aren't close to a deal... we're ****ing miles away. They essentially offered to shudder Yongbyon in exchange for full or near full sanction relief... that isn't even in the same zip code of our stated agenda.

Sure you can say it didn't hurt to meet with Kim last year... I guess that's an okay route to take, not what I would do but whatever. Problem is you exchanged something for that action and now you've done it not once but TWICE and still haven't been able to extract a SINGLE thing from the Regime in writing.

Finally, you've now hamstrung your policy and are locked into this place where have to pretend everything is "great" and a deal is close... it isn't. To tact and begin ratcheting up the pressure signals you've failed, wasted two years, and hurt your position.

What I would have done in this scenario was the exact same thing the previous administration had done. The status quo was fine. Our neighbors security was assured by us... and everything the Regime has done for the past 40 years has been out of paranoid self-preservation.

The military removal option isn't really feasible so what you were left with is status quo. Which was fine.

[davew]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

I've got to be honest, this was not a win for Trump and he's on a losing streak right now.....Needs to come back stateside, regroup and go on the offensive here at home ASAP....

No more defensive actions, no matter what.

still no missile tests in year, Kim wearing suit rather than smock, N Koreans seeing prosperity and advancement around world, S Korea wanting to open trade with them, ....

[Ocala Mike]

S. Korea was totally taken aback by this outcome; we left them hanging again. Also, the business of "no testing" is a false positive. They are probably at a place where they don't need to test any more.