Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 03-15-2017, 12:34 PM   #16
airford1
Registered User
 
airford1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 510
Horse racing has lost the players to the local Casinos and I don't think they can ever get the stands filled again.
airford1 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 12:44 PM   #17
Greyfox
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,962
Why boycott Santa Anita?

The takeout percentages for various North American tracks are listed at

http://www.sportsbettingacumen.com/h...can-racetracks

There are other tracks who are taking higher percentages than Santa Anita.
Greyfox is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 02:19 PM   #18
startngate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cratos View Post
Horseracing in California is in a regulated market (not a free market) controlled by the California Horse Racing Board (CHRB). The CHRB governs horseracing in both the physical and virtual world.
Incorrect. The TOC governs racing in California. The CHRB just likes to think it does. Therein lies the real problem.
startngate is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 03:06 PM   #19
olddaddy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
Why boycott Santa Anita?

The takeout percentages for various North American tracks are listed at

http://www.sportsbettingacumen.com/h...can-racetracks

There are other tracks who are taking higher percentages than Santa Anita.
Those takeouts appear to be at least 3 years old. I know they have changed but dont know how much.
olddaddy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 03:23 PM   #20
thaskalos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
Pennsylvania Racing runs a thriving casino business...and still skims off 31% from the trifecta pools. And we are boycotting CALIFORNIA?
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse

Last edited by thaskalos; 03-15-2017 at 03:25 PM.
thaskalos is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 05:49 PM   #21
Maximillion
Registered User
 
Maximillion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,115
It seems like there is no continuity to the way most of the horses are entered there,at least on dirt.
Run/Layoff/Run/Layoff etc. is standard,and for me thats almost as bad as the short fields.
Maximillion is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 07:49 PM   #22
Andy Asaro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
California is being boycotted because of the jackpot provision being paid to the jackpot with the surface change when everyone was given ALL in the last race. The 15% should be paid out when there is an all race because the chances of a single ticket are much less likely.

There have been problems with this wager going back to last year at GG, then at Del Mar, and now this. The bet should have been suspended until such time as the rule was fixed where it paid out the 15% in the event of an all race in the P6.

The CHRB and Santa Anita didn't even know why we were pissed off. They had no idea that the 15% being paid to the jackpot was the reason. They thought it was over a unique ticket and the jackpot being paid if there was one ticket with 5. I was the first person they contacted because of my email list of Gamblers and Industry Insiders that I blast just about every day several times a day. Most of the CHRB Board members are on it, so are TOC officials, and Track Execs. In recent years the CHRB spokesperson Mike Marten will hit reply to all to reply to an email containing a complaint. This guy is the only real expert at the CHRB and I don't know of any jurisdiction with someone like him answering questions sometimes withing minutes but usually within hours of an email/incident.

We have an old score to settle with California Racing which is now failing badly. They seem to care less and less about integrity as they become more desperate for revenue. Take how the fairs handle their jackpot bet. There is no particular mandatory payout for each fair meet. They carryover into the next meet. Most people don't know that and the dumb money helps the jackpot go higher with no mandatory payout. They disclose this is fine print somewhere on the website while insisting that they are informing the public. Bullshit.

As far as the boycott in 2011 goes we got the Players Pick 5 at 14% take and that has proven to be a huge success over the years. In addition the DD's are now 20% which is less than it was before the takeout hike. Additionally they were going to raise WPS to 17% if there was no pushback. They were wrong about pushback. Ca. was on pace to be down 450 million until H.P. put in the P5. That effectively stopped the boycott and handle ended up about 250 million down. I often lament the fact that if I knew then what I know now I would have never suggested and pushed for the wager. The boycott would have been devastating to the point that they would have been forced to make many more changes. But, how could anyone know that after the success of the P5 that they would do nothing since when it comes to takeout and wagering menu adjustments of any significance?

HANA has now taken the word of an employee of Santa Anita who said he had a message from Joe Morris of a promise to fix the rule. When have they ever followed through on a promise like this? How about never. The Letter to Frank Stronach was my idea because there are high level meetings being held since Monday. The hope was that Frank or Belinda would see the letter at the beginning of the meetings so they could make a more informed decision (neither one of them know much about anything that has gone on since the boycott). By not sending it Monday afternoon we lost that edge which may have prompted an immediate fix since the boycott isn't until next week from March 23rd to March 26th. It was intended to present a new boycott model to take around the country if it worked. The premise being that if a jurisdiction screws up the pay an almost immediate loss of revenue penalty. I was figuring that if it worked we would move on to Gulfstream next mainly over chronically mistiming races and extreme post dragging.

Even though HANA has backed out of the boycott some of us are going through with it on principle even though it is much less likely that we can hurt them. Most of the people being ripped off by jackpot bets are those that don't know a lot about gambling IMO. People who are being ripped off and who don't know better need HANA all the more but it seems that they are being ignored in this situation.

As far as my solution for California Racing you can click this link.

http://www.paulickreport.com/horsepl...-horse-racing/

Both Jim Gagliano of the Jockey Club and Alex Waldrop of the NTRA have to help promote Ca. Racing as a test jurisdiction for selling racing as a gambling game of skill. As far as I know it would be the first time that has been done. The free publicity after the changes would be worth hundredths of thousands of dollars and help generate millions in increased revenue IMO.

BTW the link provided in the direct message on Twitter was to the old rules. When I first got it I assumed they were the new rules. They were not.

This situation should piss everyone off and everyone should want a rapid response boycott model if there is one. This would have been an experiment that may have resulted in that model.

Remember that when something happens that hurts the integrity we have to stand up together to change an injustice. Even if we aren't successful in getting change not standing up at all is much worse IMO.

A

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Direct message from Santa Anita Press Box..jpg (82.3 KB, 12 views)

Last edited by Andy Asaro; 03-15-2017 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Addtion
Andy Asaro is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 08:31 PM   #23
Andy Asaro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
http://www.horseraceinsider.com/Ante-Post/


The greatest racetrack robbery this side of The Grifters took place Sunday at Santa Anita. If you missed it, the last race was taken off wet turf. Since the decision was announced after betting had opened, it made the race an “all” in the Pick 6 and Pick 4.

According to the single ticket jackpot rules of the Pick 6, the “all” dictated there could be no jackpot winner. Nevertheless, Santa Anita carried over the 15 percent set aside for days when there isn’t a single winner. So bettors couldn’t win but they could lose. Do that in other gambling games and someone calls the cops.
Andy Asaro is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 08:31 PM   #24
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Pennsylvania Racing runs a thriving casino business...and still skims off 31% from the trifecta pools. And we are boycotting CALIFORNIA?

You can't boycott a product hardly anyone buys.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 08:36 PM   #25
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro View Post
http://www.horseraceinsider.com/Ante-Post/


The greatest racetrack robbery this side of The Grifters took place Sunday at Santa Anita. If you missed it, the last race was taken off wet turf. Since the decision was announced after betting had opened, it made the race an “all” in the Pick 6 and Pick 4.

According to the single ticket jackpot rules of the Pick 6, the “all” dictated there could be no jackpot winner. Nevertheless, Santa Anita carried over the 15 percent set aside for days when there isn’t a single winner. So bettors couldn’t win but they could lose. Do that in other gambling games and someone calls the cops.
Just to be a little fair, as was pointed out in the other thread, one all race doesn't exclude the possibility of a single winner. It is extremely unlikely but is possible.

That said, even if true, Santa Anita surely could have checked and known if it were possible at the time the decision was made. If not, they shouldn't keep the 15%. The problem is the people in charge don't fully understand the complex bets they are offering.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 08:46 PM   #26
therussmeister
Out-of-town Jasper
 
therussmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,364
Should I start playing Santa Anita now so I can boycott it?
__________________
“If you want to outwit the devil, it is extremely important that you don't give him advanced notice."

~Alan Watts
therussmeister is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 08:51 PM   #27
AskinHaskin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 487
LOL - what is that blowhard talking about?


It was only apathy that "stopped the (2011) SA boycott" before it really ever started, as was certain to be the case even before it was supposed to begin.


And what idiot would endorse not playing by the rules in place at the moment a contest began? "...boycotted because of the jackpot provision being paid to the jackpot with the surface change when everyone was given ALL in the last race."


This is somebody whose position on various industry issues you really want to listen to?


The kicker is when he offers a link to a story written at the end of 2015 in which he supposedly writes:

"A simple change to eliminate breakage on WPS bets by paying to the penny will be one of the most talked about stories of 2016."


Did anybody hear anything beyond mumbling on such a topic during the entire calendar year ???

And how did the magnitude of that story/subject compare with, say, Donald Trump ??


Don't forget this is the same fool who once forecast that Canterbury's live handle for the 2016 race meeting (would) "be up 40-50%".



Seldom before has there been a better example for the old adage:


"you can not become part of the solution until you cease to be the problem"
AskinHaskin is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 09:57 PM   #28
ribjig
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 114
First track offering WPS betting at break-even
takeout, say, 8% to cover costs, to attract
more exotic betting would reach $5M daily handle
& multiple $100K+ purses daily within 3 years, IMO...

Other tracks forced to lower takeouts, too...

Wishing a Native American tribe with deep pockets
from casino profits & proud of their horse cultural
history would realize this!!!!!!!!
__________________
DISAGREE
WITH WHAT
I SAID?
THEN YOU
MUST REREAD
THE THREAD...
ribjig is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 10:47 PM   #29
EMD4ME
NoPoints4ME
 
EMD4ME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by ribjig View Post
First track offering WPS betting at break-even
takeout, say, 8% to cover costs, to attract
more exotic betting would reach $5M daily handle
& multiple $100K+ purses daily within 3 years, IMO...

Other tracks forced to lower takeouts, too...

Wishing a Native American tribe with deep pockets
from casino profits & proud of their horse cultural
history would realize this!!!!!!!!
Did you say Emerald?

They just lowered their P7 and P5, so I would not be surprised if they make another move relatively soon. All good news coming out of Washington past couple of years.

To the Northwestern PA members, thoughts?
EMD4ME is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-15-2017, 11:57 PM   #30
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by AskinHaskin View Post
LOL - what is that blowhard talking about?


It was only apathy that "stopped the (2011) SA boycott" before it really ever started, as was certain to be the case even before it was supposed to begin.


And what idiot would endorse not playing by the rules in place at the moment a contest began? "...boycotted because of the jackpot provision being paid to the jackpot with the surface change when everyone was given ALL in the last race."


This is somebody whose position on various industry issues you really want to listen to?


The kicker is when he offers a link to a story written at the end of 2015 in which he supposedly writes:

"A simple change to eliminate breakage on WPS bets by paying to the penny will be one of the most talked about stories of 2016."


Did anybody hear anything beyond mumbling on such a topic during the entire calendar year ???

And how did the magnitude of that story/subject compare with, say, Donald Trump ??


Don't forget this is the same fool who once forecast that Canterbury's live handle for the 2016 race meeting (would) "be up 40-50%".



Seldom before has there been a better example for the old adage:


"you can not become part of the solution until you cease to be the problem"
Calling someone names is pretty juvenile. Make your point without acting like a third grade bully please or keep them to yourself.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply





Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
» Current Polls
Wh deserves to be the favorite? (last 4 figures)
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.