This doesn't sound good (for Servis and Navarro)

[airford1]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Where did his passion for cheating come from?

Greed

[cj]

Remember these Servis quotes?

https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...arrassing_123#

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

This is correct! When you hear "training up to the Derby" it could very well mean "drugging up to the Derby". I've always felt that to be true.

Another thing that is problematic in this vein is the enormous purses. When you have a high priced, talented runner and they can break their maiden in a 100k maiden race, you have to run less to make the same money. One or two precision based races removes the need to run more. Add that phenomenon to the time it takes to tear down and build up these horses (and also the fact that so many horses are with the same trainers) and you have a recipe for 5 starts per year and very small fields.

I've said many times, horse racing suffers from a terrible eco-system.

Also the breeding industry.

The breeding industry chooses to reward lightly raced horses with few on-track accomplishments with huge stud fees. That's the incentive hanging over all other incentives.

Justify had the perfect career as far as the breeding industry was concerned. Ran just enough to get into the Kentucky Derby, won the TC, quickly retired before he could get hurt or lose a race.

As long as the upside of that sort of a career is an eight figure payday, that's what you are going to see owners and trainers try to do with good horses.

Honestly, in one sense purses are too low, at least for graded stakes horses. If you could make a lot more money racing, that would create an incentive to race rather than breed. You can see that on the female side of the equation- mares like Beholder and Zenyatta had long careers, because you make just as much money racing a top stakes mare as you do breeding her.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Also the breeding industry.

The breeding industry chooses to reward lightly raced horses with few on-track accomplishments with huge stud fees. That's the incentive hanging over all other incentives.

Justify had the perfect career as far as the breeding industry was concerned. Ran just enough to get into the Kentucky Derby, won the TC, quickly retired before he could get hurt or lose a race.

As long as the upside of that sort of a career is an eight figure payday, that's what you are going to see owners and trainers try to do with good horses.

Honestly, in one sense purses are too low, at least for graded stakes horses. If you could make a lot more money racing, that would create an incentive to race rather than breed. You can see that on the female side of the equation- mares like Beholder and Zenyatta had long careers, because you make just as much money racing a top stakes mare as you do breeding her.

Very well written. Great points. Absolutely agree that breeding is the ultimate goal and racing is a means to the end. This more so validates my point that racing suffers from a terrible eco-system. Those things that are most valuable to these connections are extraordinarily detrimental to the game.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

Remember these Servis quotes?

https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...arrassing_123#

I wonder what Servis is telling his kids right about now.

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I wonder what Servis is telling his kids right about now.

Goodbye, most likely.

[Robert Fischer]

This is a good reality-check for anyone who considers themselves a knowledgeable semi-aware horseplayer or fan:

Did you know that Service was using PEDs before this FBI investigation became public?


It's a good opportunity to self-reflect.

Were you guys naive?

Did you let the accolades and praise, and the fact that it was also in Racing's big events persuade you to rationalize your judgement towards "clean", or even "maybe not, I'm not sure"?


We as humans have this wonderful blessing of intelligence. We're capable of these advanced technologies and creations. We also have very animal-like vulnerabilities (arguably worse than animals who can't perceive our complex narratives and propaganda).

[jay68802]

About a year ago, I was looking at a race at Gulfstream. The 3/2 favorite was the trained by Servis. Horse had never run two turns, was moving up in class, had not raced for 6 months, and showed 1 3f work in :38 in the last 6 months. I kept looking at the odds thinking I was handicapping the wrong race. I made sure I was looking at the right race, and the date was correct. Took all but the in the first leg of the Pick 3. The Servis horse won by 5 lengths. He went into the category of "??" trainers right then.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

Goodbye, most likely.

[Michael]

I'll post this here for reference.

YouTube

Also just bookmarked the Sultry Samurai in my virtual stable. (Navarro)

This was fairly recent. After watching the parade I said to myself "horse looks like he sniffed a line." After he crossed the wire I kind of rolled my eyes when I looked up the trainer. It seemed fairly typical for a horse I would suspect was pin-fired and given some type of respiratory aid. I keep this stuff in my head bc if I posted it here... it would sound like I'm just a typical gambler calling out cheaters when losing a bet.

This is a fairly bottom of the barrel claiming race at GP. Horse was 7/2 on the morning line and got slammed in the last minute. Which is enough proof for me... to know they were betting the crap out of these runners. ergo ... they didn't care if the horse figured to win anyway. They wanted to make SURE... they won.

It also jogged my mind to several horses in my past memory who had that look. Very Very Prominent names and very very very well known owners. (That "care" about their horses) Just goes to show.

yes, I would bet a large sum of money to check that horse's blood
I'm sure other are going to keep track of these horses to see what happens

[Redboard]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

This is a good reality-check for anyone who considers themselves a knowledgeable semi-aware horseplayer or fan:

Did you know that Service was using PEDs before this FBI investigation became public?


It's a good opportunity to self-reflect.

Were you guys naive?

Did you let the accolades and praise, and the fact that it was also in Racing's big events persuade you to rationalize your judgement towards "clean", or even "maybe not, I'm not sure"?


We as humans have this wonderful blessing of intelligence. We're capable of these advanced technologies and creations. We also have very animal-like vulnerabilities (arguably worse than animals who can't perceive our complex narratives and propaganda).

I've never known a horse player who didnt think all successful trainers cheat. Andrew Beyer said pretty much the same thing when his was on 60 Minutes a while back. He was asked if he thought trainers cheat " Of course I do, we all think that."

[dilanesp]

One very useful reform (that WADA already does- remember, when horsemen and insiders bash on WADA, you should be suspicious) is to store samples from drug tests rather than throwing them out. That's a huge deterrent against cheating with new "undetectable" substances, because you can go back and test for them once the new tests are developed.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

Goodbye, most likely.

lol, not yet but soon

[big frank]

WONG-HERBERTSON-BADILLA--TAMAYO------And the new flavor of the month -Jacqui Navarre---------------Does Northern Cal even have testing ?

[Suff]

Originally Posted by cj

His brother John had the 11 in the 10th at GP today.

Having a Servis starter was not a good look to begin with, imho.

But make it worse. The horse ran 2 furlongs,
Stopped and was vanned off.