Religion II

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Actor

Read it again.

Why? Tell me what you think I am missing.

[Buckeye]

I've read and wrote about all this stuff before.

That's why I play horses I think!

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

I've read the Chrysostomos, the "Golden Mouth" and other Church fathers. Doesn't Chrysostomos teach about the spiritual teachings of Jesus? In fact isn't the state of the heart a major teaching in the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Sure their were some who were corrupted by the promise of power and luxury and others sought power by joining the Church. Do you think St. Anthony the Great was corrupted?

Look at the current corruption by predatory homosexual clergy. Their actions do not nullify the doctrines or the fact spiritual teachings have been passed down, it only shows their individual lack of belief and faith.

IMO...the real Jesus hasn't been made known to us. His body was crucified by the Romans...and his teaching was mutilated by the Church. The early Christians, who were the ones most closest to Jesus...were hunted down and persecuted for their religious beliefs. What I think survives now is the version of Christianity that the "hunters" have brought into being...and have continued to promote. Can a corrupted Church be relied upon to convey an "authentic" spiritual teaching? Well...it was Jesus himself who warned against drinking the seemingly clear water coming out of a rotted water-vessel.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

IMO...the real Jesus hasn't been made known to us. His body was crucified by the Romans...and his teaching was mutilated by the Church. The early Christians, who were the ones most closest to Jesus...were hunted down and persecuted for their religious beliefs. What I think survives now is the version of Christianity that the "hunters" have brought into being...and have continued to promote. Can a corrupted Church be relied upon to convey an "authentic" spiritual teaching? Well...it was Jesus himself who warned against drinking the seemingly clear water coming out of a rotted water-vessel.

I believe in free will, which means others are entitled to hold differing opinions and beliefs in matters of faith. If that is your opinion, so be it.

[Buckeye]

I don't think its a good idea to put yourself above the Bible but I could be wrong?

You are free to believe whatever you want.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Why? Tell me what you think I am missing.

To do that you need to tell me what parts you don't understand.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

I believe in free will, which means others are entitled to hold differing opinions and beliefs in matters of faith. If that is your opinion, so be it.

This is where you will always arrive, amid an ocean of internet practitioners of the hermeneutic of suspicion, vis-à-vis a personal conversation with one whose trust you have gained by your lived life.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

This is where you will always arrive, amid an ocean of internet practitioners of the hermeneutic of suspicion, vis-à-vis a personal conversation with one whose trust you have gained by your lived life.

It's all about the end result, which is contextualization.....But you knew that already, out in your boat on the ocean.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Is that a good thing?

Yes.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The communists don't profess to be following the teachings of Jesus...and neither do the Jews. It's the CHRISTIANS who declare that they are Jesus's followers. And I ask...do these Christians only follow Jesus's "convenient advice"?

I take it that all this time you are alluding to the dialogue that Jesus had with the rich man in Matthew 19? Again, the big question here is this: IS this NARRATIVE, prescriptive or descriptive in nature? And I have already guidelines by which we may know. The answer is that this narrative is descriptive in nature. In fact, we can tell this from the immediate context of the passage itself. Jesus was dealing with a:

1. Self-righteous individual who claimed he kept the law perfectly. And this also makes him a:

2. Self-deceived man.

Jesus, therefore, knowing the hearts of all men, cut to the chase with the self-deceived, self-righteous rich man. He knew what the object of this man's faith really was. He knew what he really worshiped. He knew this man's idol was -- his MONEY!

Jesus is telling this self-righteous man that he must get rid of his idol -- and the way to do that is to go and give his money to the poor. Do something GOOD with your riches, instead of trusting in them rather than in God.

Jesus is not commanding all disciples to go sell all their possessions.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

IMO...the real Jesus hasn't been made known to us. His body was crucified by the Romans...and his teaching was mutilated by the Church. The early Christians, who were the ones most closest to Jesus...were hunted down and persecuted for their religious beliefs. What I think survives now is the version of Christianity that the "hunters" have brought into being...and have continued to promote. Can a corrupted Church be relied upon to convey an "authentic" spiritual teaching? Well...it was Jesus himself who warned against drinking the seemingly clear water coming out of a rotted water-vessel.

If you what you say is true, then this implies that the scriptures (or at least the NT) emanated from evil minds. Can you show us, therefore, an example or two of downright evil teachings in the NT?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

If you what you say is true, then this implies that the scriptures (or at least the NT) emanated from evil minds. Can you show us, therefore, an example or two of downright evil teachings in the NT?

There are millions of believers who feel just as YOU do right now. They have accepted God as their personal savior, and they believe that Jesus's blood has cleansed them of their sins. The thought that they may still have work to do in order to further purify themselves no longer occurs to them...because they have chosen to accept the "believe and you are in" version of heaven that the Church is in the business of manufacturing. These deluded people are convinced that they are, and will forever be, "saved"...and that their already-made reservations to the heavenly life can never be revoked. "The path to the heavenly life is narrow, and the pedestrians upon it are few"...Jesus has famously declared. And yet...these millions of people are all preparing for heaven just the same.

This is what happens when an authentic spiritual teaching is "organized"...and then marketed for mass consumption.

"Leave everything behind and follow me"...Jesus would tell those who would inquire about the heavenly life. How could the masses become interested in such an outrageous proposition, and, how could a multi-billion dollar industry be built upon such a startling demand? If the command still remained in its "Leave everything behind and follow me" form...then the path to heaven would indeed be narrow... and the pedestrians would indeed be few. But if we alter this to its current "believe and you are in" version...then the path becomes as wide as the widest freeway...and the pedestrians upon it number in the many millions.

In business, they call this..."innovative marketing"

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Actor

Yes.

Only if you ignore history. Those who are ignorant of the lessons of history repeat the same mistakes.

It is apparent from your answer, you never did figure out why the founding Father Benjamin Franklin made the comment about the form of government being a republic and seeing how long we, the people, can keep such a government.

Maybe because you don't care about keeping a democratic republic form of government and favor another kind?

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Actor

To do that you need to tell me what parts you don't understand.

I don't understand if you know the first followers of Christ were practicing Jews. practicing Jews whose lives revolved around the Temple, as the place the living God's dwelling among His people. I don't understand if you understand the O.T. for these Jewish followers is a foreshadowing of the N.T.?

I understand you don't understand your conclusion is faulty.

Try again to justify your claim Christianity existed before Christ.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Around 1376 to 1521 AD, Aztecs used blood and sacrifice frequently as an offering to the Sun God (Pendragon 2). The Aztecs saw death as part of life, just like birth (Pendragron 2). They believed the gods sacrificed their own blood to create the universe, so in turn, the Aztecs offered blood to the Gods as a sort of reciprocal exchange and gift for their creations (Pendragon 2). Furthermore, the supply of ritual blood was believed to maintain plentiful fertile crops and aid in the continuation of the Aztec world.

The author Jasmyne Pendragon, who has a bachelor of archaeology, stated in her Article The Purpose of Aztec Blood Rituals Part 1, that “The Aztecs lifestyles were governed by a need to supply fresh-blooded sacrificial victims to the sun god who required the hearts of men to give life to the world and assist the souls of dead warriors to the Aztecs version of heaven” (2).

The rituals maintained a relationship between Aztecs and their gods (Pendragon 2). The Aztecs believed the gods would provide plentiful crops and healthy long lives as long as blood was ritually given (Pendragon 2). If blood was not sacrificed to the gods, the humans believed they would be punished and endure excessive pain “more violent than any man could ever do” (Pendragon 3). Wikipedia.