Saw an ad in DRF for a new book (James Quinn)

[Capper Al]

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

Well, there goes that holiday gift idea! Thanks a lot Al!!!

You could always use it as a paper weight.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by Capper Al

I can't see how one could like handicapping and not like Quinn's books. He writes his text at the college level. This could be what the problem is.

I can't say that I agree with that. If you think he writes at the college level, you need go down to your local college book store and take a gander at a couple college text books. I would say more like the junior in high school level. Needless to say, I am not a fan of his.

[Capper Al]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I can't say that I agree with that. If you think he writes at the college level, you need go down to your local college book store and take a gander at a couple college text books. I would say more like the junior in high school level. Needless to say, I am not a fan of his.

I always feel that I should be writing notes as I read him.

[proximity]

will be interesting to see if mr quinn is still scribbling quirin #s and turn times on the pps or if the focus will be on moss/beyer #s and formulator info? and it may be even more interesting to see if he's come up with any new changes to his turf ratings.

[Profiler8]

Why is the book not available at amazon ? It seems, that it has not released yet.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Profiler8

Why is the book not available at amazon ? It seems, that it has not released yet.

It will probably be a month before DRF ships it to us.

They said the delivery date would be Dec. 10...but now, who knows?

[Tom]

I'll be calling - if I pay extra for 2 day shipping, I want to be sure the morons at DRF have someone there that can count for them. I am already pissed of at them.

[Beachbabe]

I'll probably wait for the movie.

[andicap]

While I'm always happy to see new handicapping books on the market, I have to agree that Quinn is a terrible writer. I have no idea if he is a good handicapper and there are always decent nuggets in his works but parsing them is generally exhausting. He writes extensively in the passive voice and in the third person in a dry, impersonal style that generally serves to obfuscate rather than clarify his points.

So yes, in a lot of ways Quinn does write like a college professor. Not that he uses $5 words when a 10 cent one will do, but that he cares much more about putting his thoughts down on paper as quickly as possible than keeping the reader engaged. Professors get away with it because they are writing for other academics. But for the consumer market, it's lazy and eventually kind of insulting to the reader.

Beyer is a example of an excellent writer. Engaging. Active voice, full of personality. That's the main reason why his books sold well among horseplayers.

The other problem with Quinn's material is the lack of quantifiable proof that any of his ideas actually work. The evidence is all anecdotal. Yes, you might get a good idea or two from reading them and if that's all you expect from your $25, then fine.

But with communicators like Dave Schwartz, I get evidence. Charts. Data. Reasons to have confidence in his theories. The knowledge that Dave has spent hours running his hypotheses through the mill and getting an objective analysis of their validity. William Quirin was the same way.

Beyer did this in his own fashion in "My $50,000 Year at the Races." You got to see how his futures worked in the real world in semi real-time.

[dlgreg]

I received the Quinn book yesterday.
I ordered it on 12-10.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by andicap

While I'm always happy to see new handicapping books on the market, I have to agree that Quinn is a terrible writer. I have no idea if he is a good handicapper and there are always decent nuggets in his works but parsing them is generally exhausting. He writes extensively in the passive voice and in the third person in a dry, impersonal style that generally serves to obfuscate rather than clarify his points.
.

Yes, he does have a dry impersonal style.
I've met him in person twice and his writing style pretty well matches his personality. Certainly, he lacks the color of an Andy Beyer.

I understand from those who know him better that he is a good handicapper.
Whether or not that translates into betting, or making money from his wagers, I'm not sure.

However, while Quinn's writing style lacks flair, I would never ever say that he is a terrible writer.
His writing has depth and there is lots of food for thought for interested readers to chew on.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Yes, he does have a dry impersonal style.
I've met him in person twice and his writing style pretty well matches his personality. Certainly, he lacks the color of an Andy Beyer.

I understand from those who know him better that he is a good handicapper.
Whether or not that translates into betting, or making money from his wagers, I'm not sure.

However, while Quinn's writing style lacks flair, I would never ever say that he is a terrible writer.
His writing has depth and there is lots of food for thought for interested readers to chew on.

I agree.

I have for a long time been recommending Quinn's book RECREATIONAL HANDICAPPING as the best book of its kind in the handicapping marketplace...and I think he is a very good writer. Sure his writing is a little dry and more "technical" than Beyer's is...but that's not necessarily a bad thing; this is, after all, a complicated subject when you get beneath the surface of it.

Beyer, Quinn, Davidowitz, Brohamer, Sterling, Ragozin, Schmidt...they have all paid their dues as far as I am concerned...and I would run to pick up their book, were they to decide to commit more of their thoughts to paper.

[CincyHorseplayer]

The way Quinn writes is deliberate because he wants it to be accessible to players of all kinds.His treatment of class in relation to ages and times of year,providing archetypes of winners,he is the Jung of horserace handicapping.But that doesn't mean IMO he should write a book like Jung's Aion or Norman Brown's Life Against Death or an Immanuel Kantian treatise that is so obscure in it's terminology that it's useless for all but about 10% of readers.Quinn puts himself deliberately in the middle of the road and his understanding of the game,while seemingly simple,is as thorough as any author I've read.Tough crowd.He doesn't have the war stories of Beyer so he lacks personality.And doesn't have painstaking language along with polished diamonds for you at 29.95 so he lacks intelligence!What a cranky,greedy bunch

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by CincyHorseplayer

The way Quinn writes is deliberate because he wants it to be accessible to players of all kinds.His treatment of class in relation to ages and times of year,providing archetypes of winners,he is the Jung of horserace handicapping.But that doesn't mean IMO he should write a book like Jung's Aion or Norman Brown's Life Against Death or an Immanuel Kantian treatise that is so obscure in it's terminology that it's useless for all but about 10% of readers.Quinn puts himself deliberately in the middle of the road and his understanding of the game,while seemingly simple,is as thorough as any author I've read.Tough crowd.He doesn't have the war stories of Beyer so he lacks personality.And doesn't have painstaking language along with polished diamonds for you at 29.95 so he lacks intelligence!What a cranky,greedy bunch

There you go!

That's the problem with society today; we value style over substance.

[bob77713]

Does anyone know the Table of Contents for Quinn's new book?

Thanks.