Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

• Women should keep silent.
• Slavery is OK.

Scripture doesn't teach that slavery is okay. Slavery was an ancient Near East cultural reality. (In fact, it appears the entire ancient world embraced slavery. It was a fact of life during those times!) But the bible is concerned with personal sins, not social, societal or cultural sins per se. The Law of Moses treats this subject and gave the Jews instructions on how to personally treat slaves.

And in the NT, Paul taught that slaves should seek their freedom when possible -- that freedom, evidently, was better than slavery (1 Cor 7:21).

As far as women go, read the following:

https://ebible.com/questions/2506-ca...kZiVowPM5heHk=

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Benjamin Franklin's own words, per his autobiography.



Doesn't sound like a deist to me, as he confesses the world is governed by God's providence. And certainly not an atheist.

Franklin belonged to the Presbyterian denomination of Christianity.

Absolutely right! A deist would not think along those lines. A deistic god is a disinterested god. And a disinterested god would never call anyone into judgment.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Plenty of Protestant denominations would disagree. I think the Roman Catholic Church would also disagree.

I don't speak for any denomination. I speak from the Word of God.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Correct. They named their religion after a person who never existed. Similar to the way the Mormons are named after a guy named Mormon who also never existed.

However, as a child I was taught (Southern Methodist) that the Christians did not name themselves. The term Christian (or Christ Ones) was applied to them by the Roman authorities. Whatever.

So...did Mormonism exist hundreds of years before Mr. Mormon did?

It appears you attended a church that might have been bible-illiterate. As stated very recently, Christ's disciples were first called Christians in Antioch (Act 11:26).

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

To what "outrageous proposition, specifically, are you referring? I thought Jesus made one specific "outrageous proposition" to the rich guy? Didn't he tell the rich guy to liquidate all his assets and give them up to the poor? Or are you reading out of a different bible?

No...it's in the original bible. Jesus was telling his followers that they should seek the kingdom of heaven first, and leave everything else behind. "Follow me"...he told one of the would-be followers...to which the man replied, "I will, Lord...but first I have to bury my dead father". And Jesus gave the famous reply..."Let the dead bury the dead". And then another man said to him, "I will follow you Lord...but first let me warn my family that I am leaving them". And Jesus said..."He who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is unworthy of my kingdom".

There is a heavy price to be paid for the "heavenly kingdom", Boxcar...faith alone won't get the job done. But the masses don't want to hear that bitter message...so, the Church has made things a little more "palatable".

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

No...it's in the original bible. Jesus was telling his followers that they should seek the kingdom of heaven first, and leave everything else behind. "Follow me"...he told one of the would-be followers...to which the man replied, "I will, Lord...but first I have to bury my dead father". And Jesus gave the famous reply..."Let the dead bury the dead". And then another man said to him, "I will follow you Lord...but first let me warn my family that I am leaving them". And Jesus said..."He who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is unworthy of my kingdom".

There is a heavy price to be paid for the "heavenly kingdom", Boxcar...faith alone won't get the job done. But the masses don't want to hear that bitter message...so, the Church has made things a little more "palatable".

Those are some of the examples of the silliness of Christ’s messages to his followers...add to that...”turn the other cheek after someone strikes you” and “love your enemies”...both sound nice but the reality is very much different....not only will you be looked upon as a coward, but your enemies just might kill you for all your love that you show them...

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

No...it's in the original bible. Jesus was telling his followers that they should seek the kingdom of heaven first, and leave everything else behind. "Follow me"...he told one of the would-be followers...to which the man replied, "I will, Lord...but first I have to bury my dead father". And Jesus gave the famous reply..."Let the dead bury the dead". And then another man said to him, "I will follow you Lord...but first let me warn my family that I am leaving them". And Jesus said..."He who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is unworthy of my kingdom".

There is a heavy price to be paid for the "heavenly kingdom", Boxcar...faith alone won't get the job done. But the masses don't want to hear that bitter message...so, the Church has made things a little more "palatable".

Okay, originally, you were talking and whining about the rich man who had sell the clothes off his back before entering the kingdom. But now you're on another horse. Okay...here we go.

http://www.eternalgod.org/q-a-6107/

Enjoy the read. But I will add this very important point not mentioned by any of the commentators: The call of the Gospel is always an URGENT call because none of us knows when our number is going to get punched. The call of the Gospel demands our immediate obedient response by faith.

Heb 3:7-8
7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,

"Today if you hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me,
As in the day of trial in the wilderness,
NASB


Heb 3:15
15 while it is said,

"Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked Me."
NASB

Heb 4:7
7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,

"Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts."
NASB

And I would remind you that the only proper response to Christ's call is the immediate obedience of faith (Rom 16:26), which we find when Christ called his 12 apostles (one of whom, of course, was destined for perdition) -- but nonetheless the other 11 dropped everything immediately and followed Christ by faith and, unlike Judas, persevered in the Faith.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Okay, originally, you were talking and whining about the rich man who had sell the clothes off his back before entering the kingdom. But now you're on another horse. Okay...here we go.

http://www.eternalgod.org/q-a-6107/

Enjoy the read.

There isn't a single intellectually-honest bone in your entire body. It wasn't I who brought the "rich man" into our conversation here...it was YOU! In post #8712, all I said was that Jesus instructed his followers to "Leave everything behind, and follow him". It was in YOUR reply (#8724) that you interpreted this as being a reference to only the rich man, and his love of money. I had never "whined" about the rich man up to that point...and I subsequently informed you that Jesus had told other people too to "Leave everything behind and follow him"...this wasn't said to just the rich man...as you had originally thought.

And the bogus website that you have supplied as an explanation is too silly to comment on...but I'll expose you as the fraud that you are anyway...since you are such "low-hanging fruit". The above website says that Jesus told the man to forget about burying his father...because the father supposedly wasn't already dead. The father was elderly, the website says...and the guy was telling Jesus that he would have to keep Jesus waiting while he himself waited for his elderly father to die. Improbable, IMO...but, let's assume that this explanation is exactly RIGHT. And now I ask YOU:

Why did Jesus object when that OTHER guy simply asked to go warn his family that he was leaving them, in order to follow Jesus? Do you supposed that the guy's family was away on a long vacation...and Jesus couldn't be bothered to wait for the family to return...so the guy could inform them of his departure? Do you see how ridiculous you and your bogus websites are, Boxcar? Run along now...and see if you can find a somewhat reasonable explanation for Jesus's behavior towards the second guy. The internet is a big place...you shouldn't have too much trouble.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

http://www.eternalgod.org/q-a-6107/

And I would remind you that the only proper response to Christ's call is the immediate obedience of faith (Rom 16:26), which we find when Christ called his 12 apostles (one of whom, of course, was destined for perdition) -- but nonetheless the other 11 dropped everything immediately and followed Christ by faith and, unlike Judas, persevered in the Faith.

Sorry, I didn't notice this before because I got lost reading that bogus website that you attached to your post.

If God's call indeed requires "immediate obedience", then...why does your above website go into such a lengthy explanation to prove that Jesus would not object to the burial of the guy's dead father? If God's call must be immediately obeyed...then it should be immediately obeyed, whether the father is dead or not.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

It doesn’t do any good to refer to yourself or anyone else as an ‘atheist’ because that word is purely negative in connotation...it essentially functions as a carefully crafted SLUR word upon decent people who have any kind of sense left...we are more than just non-believers of spookcraft...

Monotheists realize that “atheist” is a SLUR and they delight in using it....part of the arsenal for character assasination.

There's no reason to accept it as a slur word. At the 2016 Reason Rally many obviously took pride in it.

The term "big bang" was intended to ridicule the theory but scientists adopted it and ran with it.

Americans do not take offense at being called "yankees", rather they take pride in it (New York Yankees, "the Yanks are coming") but it was originally applied to patriots by the Hessian mercenaries hired by George III. "Yankee doodle dandy" is obviously sexual.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Scripture doesn't teach that slavery is okay.

YouTube

Originally Posted by boxcar

As far as women go, read the following:

https://ebible.com/questions/2506-ca...kZiVowPM5heHk=

Read your own link. It violates the Law of Non-Contradiction multiple times.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Hey...I'm only quoting scripture. Why are you so upset? Scripture "proves nothing", right? And I was referring to all atheists, not anyone in particular.

I'm not upset. I'm laughing. I'm merely pointing out that the quote is an ad hominem and thus no argument at all. Another example of the Goat Herder's Guide to the Universe proving nothing.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Okay, originally, you were talking and whining about the rich man who had sell the clothes off his back before entering the kingdom. But now you're on another horse. Okay...here we go.

http://www.eternalgod.org/q-a-6107/

Enjoy the read.

Here is another "biblical Christianity" website...where another lame attempt is made to explain why Jesus refused to allow the man to go bury his father. If one excuse isn't satisfactory enough...then there is always another one to try and get the job done.

https://biblical-christianity.com/le...r-dead-meaning

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

If atheists are "much more humble and spiritual" than you are (since you claime to be a "believer"), then you obviously do not have the witness of the Holy Spirit...

I didn't say they are humbler than me. I said they are humbler than those Christians that believe that they are humble while boasting about their superiority to others.

[Light]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

Those are some of the examples of the silliness of Christ’s messages to his followers...add to that...”turn the other cheek after someone strikes you” and “love your enemies”...both sound nice but the reality is very much different....not only will you be looked upon as a coward, but your enemies just might kill you for all your love that you show them...

What you perceive as weakness is strength and what you perceive as strength is weakness.

That way of being is for the user to be used internally not externally. Christ followed his own words when he was crucified. He turned the other cheek and loved his enemies. Without that ability, he would have failed. This was the strength that pulled him through.

Jesus's depth of understanding of how to live this life is way beyond your imagination. Only when you are in a similar position of being treated unfairly and you employ Christ's words of loving your enemy will you understand the power it has to liberate you from a Hellish situation. I have gone through this and Jesus's guidance has saved me. This is one reason why Jesus is my spiritual teacher and I am so grateful to him for his wisdom which is beyond words.