ALL-Ways Confusion

[gregrph]

Panda,
As much as I would love to get All-Ways to work for me, the information is too disorganized and a long time coming. If they had a forum like this for their software, that would be great. I would LOVE to try HSH and Dave's recent special was tantalizing, I had to pass up. I don't have the confidence (in myself, not the program!) that I could learn enough fast enough to cover the cost of the program AND the data. (even though the data is much cheaper than All-Ways). The economy is kicking us in the butt right now (but staying afloat) and work, family, home responsibilities take up the majority of my time. I've heard nothing but good about HSH and Dave. I look forward to a time in the future when it would make sense for me to try it out. In the meantime, if I can make head or tails of Allways, I'll use that. I don't think it will happen though! I DO like reading the newsletters though!
Greg

Originally Posted by PandaMan

All I'm after are clear-cut instructions on how to use the data. That's been my big gripe with ALL-Ways. For the life of me I cannot understand their explanation of how to use the software. A big pile of numbers I don't know how to use won't do me any good.

I looked at HTR, and it does seem to be a serious, high-quality product. I briefly took a look at their forum as well as newsletters. I just don't want to get involved in something else that gives me a pile of data and then sends me hunting through hundreds of articles to learn how to use it effectively. All I want are concise directions to get me started handicapping with it. I can learn the more advanced aspects as I go.

[PandaMan]

Thanks much for the input you've all given. At least now I don't think I have some sort of learning/comprehension disability. It's nice to know I'm not alone.

So if it comes down to HSH or HTR does anybody have an idea which gives better instruction for interpreting the data they provide? I mean the directions don't have to be short and sweet, just clear and understandable. Which of those two would be the better choice for somebody like me who'd like a bit of clarity when faced with heaps of data these types of programs provide?

[PandaMan]

Just found out about RDSS, and for me that sounds like it might be the right way to go. Instructional vids, a forum and what seems like a helpful moderator/admin team are making me lean in their direction. Also a learning curve that from what I understand is relatively tame compared to HSH and HTR.

I searched RDSS here and found mostly very positive comments. Went to their website and liked what I saw there, too.

[redeye007]

the most success with race profiles I experienced were the ones that I created manually not using the custom mra function. I would set up the race screens then run the impact value analysis, save the values, then run the top 3 analysis. from that information I would create profiles using the highest IV values for several factors. one profile I created once picked a $3,900 superfecta cold although I'm sure it was pure luck. a large database is a must. Be on the lookout for horses with huge hall and bris ff figures in the paceline report especially in maiden races. these figures produce some incredible longshot winners.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by PandaMan

Just found out about RDSS, and for me that sounds like it might be the right way to go. Instructional vids, a forum and what seems like a helpful moderator/admin team are making me lean in their direction. Also a learning curve that from what I understand is relatively tame compared to HSH and HTR.

I searched RDSS here and found mostly very positive comments. Went to their website and liked what I saw there, too.

While you were over there, did you happen to read how Patrick the Truck Driver is doing? I'm very curious as to how his RDSS experience is going these days...

Patrick, if you're reading this, let us know!

[Houndog]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

While you were over there, did you happen to read how Patrick the Truck Driver is doing? I'm very curious as to how his RDSS experience is going these days...

Patrick, if you're reading this, let us know!

PA I was wondering the same thing. I visit the Pace & Cap board nearly every day and from what I can tell his last post there was in October. He used to post often but perhaps he has other things to deal with at this time.

[Tom]

I haven't heard from him in a while either.

[Space Monkey]

PK joined the Tampa Bay Horseplayers site. He's still alive and well.

[PandaMan]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

While you were over there, did you happen to read how Patrick the Truck Driver is doing?...

Nope. Don't know him and wasn't looking for him.

[sealman]

I used AllWays for a few years and always made a profit. I think the main thing is first to have a well-grounded handicapping point of view and use the myriad information AW gives you that focuses on your specific approach. So there were a lot of pages of information that I never printed or even looked at because they would have been a distraction. Incidentally, I don't use it now because my computer crashed a year ago and in my infinite wisdom I erased one of my backup disks and somehow damaged the other and I just don't have the heart (or the time) to start things up from scratch.

[gregrph]

Seal-How do you remember what you did to start learning it? If it can be understood (my problem is reading all the reports and figuring out all the abbreviations!), is it a worthwhile tool or are other programs a better choice?

Originally Posted by sealman

I used AllWays for a few years and always made a profit. I think the main thing is first to have a well-grounded handicapping point of view and use the myriad information AW gives you that focuses on your specific approach. So there were a lot of pages of information that I never printed or even looked at because they would have been a distraction. Incidentally, I don't use it now because my computer crashed a year ago and in my infinite wisdom I erased one of my backup disks and somehow damaged the other and I just don't have the heart (or the time) to start things up from scratch.

[RichieP]

Originally Posted by PandaMan

Just found out about RDSS, and for me that sounds like it might be the right way to go. Instructional vids, a forum and what seems like a helpful moderator/admin team are making me lean in their direction. Also a learning curve that from what I understand is relatively tame compared to HSH and HTR.

I searched RDSS here and found mostly very positive comments. Went to their website and liked what I saw there, too.

Hi Panda

Ted Craven is the programmer of RDSS.

His mother Barb C who is over SEVENTY years young and working races alone today is hammering the Woodbine card making 2 buck win bets and buck exacta boxes.

Right now she is up over 150 clams at that betting level having crushed the 6th and 8th races both win and exactas in addition to other goodies.

I have asked her at days end to send me her screen shots from her Adw showing ALL bets made along with her RDSS screen shots. I will post them in a Woodbine "closing day thread" I started this morning.

2 years ago she didnt know what a BL/BL (Bottom line Betting line on RDSS) was or what a speed rating was.

Uses NO database, breeding or trainer info etc. Nothing except the HORSE.

Posting in reference to "learning curves" mentioned about here AND because Ted is a real low key advertiser and deserves a shout out. He is also a good man and true friend.

He is also only few months away from complete rewrite and awesome new version of RDSS that will blow folks minds especially when put side by side with the current version.

** There is also a thread that Ted himself started that you can read a disappointed users eval of the same software package. Allows you feedback from both sides of the aisle if you will. As a caveat the disappointed poster has been thrown off the HTR forum for lying about race files and other stuff and Mr. Massa throws almost nobody off. Ted knew this going in and still posted his stuff anyway thinking it was the only right thing to do.**

http://paceandcap.com/forums/index.php

[Khanjar]

I began using ALL-WAYS (AW) in January of this year. It was my first experience with handicapping software. In my previous incarnation as a capper, in the early to mid 90's, I just used a programmable scientific calculator, DRF, and stacks and stacks of my own data on graph paper. Oh, and a rather large personal library of books on handicapping.

I initially began using AW with a misunderstanding. I thought that it was Brohamer/Sartin pace oriented. I thought it was going to save me from having to do any more work. Wrong. It is not Brohamer-based. It is database handicapping. You can simply rely on its automatic reports and selections, or you can run your own custom reports and make your own selections. But Brohamer type figures play a very minor role in it.

Long story short, I still use it, and with success. But it is primarily only a data source for me. I simply pull the data I want and go from there. The AW selections are strictly 'FYI' for me.

Here is all I use from AW when handicapping a typical race:

* Brohamer Plus Report (This is the only report I print. I hand write essential info from other reports on this one. I view all other reports on screen.)

* Past Performances Report

* Form By the Numbers Report

*Track Bias and Jockey/Trainer Report

Of course, there are numerous other reports readily available should I want to see any of them. For me, these often include the All Factors Values Reports, Top Ten Ranking Report, Spot Play & Final Process Report and Potentially Dangerous Non-Contenders Report.

AW works for me, as I synthesize the info my own way. But essentially, it merely saves me the considerable time it would require to maintain all the needed data myself. I know, because I used to do that. I really am little interested in "database handicapping", though I do occasionally run some custom reports and profiles from AW. I feel I am paying more than I should for the few essentials that I need. All I really need is this:

*Current Brohamer data for each horse and track. (Franctional FPS, Compounds, %-E and Track Models)

*Current Hall data (especially Hall Weighted Averages)

* Past Performance data

* Hambleton Form Points

* Quirin Speed Points

Considering the mucho time I save by not doing all that number crunching myself, $7.00 per card (Gold Club) is a bargain, I suppose.

So this post is not a plug for All-Ways. Just saying that I have learned how to find and use the data in it that I need and use. But I think the whole AW concept is a type of database handicapping - something I don't really do and, in fact, am skeptical of. But then, it depends on what we mean by "database handicapping". In at least one sense, it is what I do, since virtually all the data I use comes from a database. Maybe one day soon I will post my thoughts on that subject.