Justin Fields or Caleb Williams

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by headhawg

Drake Maye looks the part but I have a feeling he's a guy that looks like Tarzan but plays like Jane. I have the same objection to him as I did with Trubisky -- UNC plays no one. They play in a basketball conference not one with a high level of football. Shouldn't Maye's stats be crazy good? Learn from the recent past. How did Sam Howell do with the Commanders? And Trushitsky can't even stay with one team very long as a backup. If I was a GM I would stay away from UNC quarterbacks, at least in the early rounds.

We all know that the draft is a crapshoot anyway. Brady fell to the 6th round. Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant 2023. Montana was a third round pick. The list of first round busts at QB is a long one. If I'm the Bears GM I would listen very carefully to what WAS may offer to move up one slot. Then take Daniels with the second pick. CW is the safe pick by most accounts. My concern is more about his attitude and the interference from his management team, not his football skills. But none of us are privy to the information that the real NFL guys get.

I just watched about 45 minutes of Maye's highlights. Like almost all the ones you watch, a bunch of throws to read 1 & 2 and only scanning half the field.
His stats really are not that impressive, considering the competition, basketball conference.

[jimmyb]

Wow! All the Bears got for Fields was a 6th rounder.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by jimmyb

Wow! All the Bears got for Fields was a 6th rounder.

You are projecting that he doesn't beat out Russel Wilson and get 75% of the snaps. I am pretty sure there was a condition that could kick it up to a 4th, off the top of my head that was it. I think he is definitely worth a 6th, if I was an NFL head coach I would find a way to get him some snaps. I think he doesn't have the processing speed or full field vision, to be a solid starter, but he is a great athlete, can escape the rush and run, and if given college time to throw, accurate. I am sure he could cause problems late in games against a worn out defense.

[kingfin66]

I'll bet they use him similar to how New Orleans has used Taysom Hill during the past several years. He can definitely be a useful offensive weapon.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by mostpost

As I’m sure you know, the Chicago Bears have the number one pick in this year’s draft. (From Carolina) They also have the ninth pick. Most of the talking heads on sports radio want them to trade Fields and pick Williams. Bears fans seem to be leaning towards keeping Fields and trading the pick.

I strongly support the second option. Trade the pick to the Commanders for the second pick, the second round pick they sent to the commanders and a first round pick in 2025. With this year’s number two pick draft Wide Receiver Marvin Harrison Jr. With the ninth pick select Rome Odunze. You would have two of the top three receivers in this draft class. And you would have a wide receivers room consisting of DJ Moore, Marvin Harrison Jr., Rome Odunze plus whoever else.

I’d like to hear other opinions on the subject.

Since I made the post above, a lot has changed. Including my opinion. After the Bears traded Fields away, I started looking more deeply into Caleb Williams, and was increasingly impressed. After hearing him speak over the last few days I am fully on board.

I’m also on board with Ryan Poles. Not only did he engineer the trade that got them the number one pick, but he also drafted Rome Odunze, an extremely talented wide receiver. He also signed DeAndre Smith and traded for Keenan Allen. And he has 11 picks in next year’s draft. Oh, did I mention a ton of cap space.

[headhawg]

A lot of people are redboarding now about their love for Williams after supporting Fields. Caleb was the safe pick, practically a no-brainer. No one should doubt his talent but he's not without weaknesses: he fumbles too much; he tries to make hero throws on every down; he's soft after being coddled his entire football life. Of course I'll be rooting for him to be a success. However...

...the Odunze pick was flashy but not needed. There's only one football and the Bears already have 2 #1 receivers, a TE with very good hands (plus Everett), and an RB who is a threat in the passing game. The Bears aren't going to the Super Bowl, and being in the North, they probably won't make the playoffs. They have IOL needs and maybe need a better LT. They have pass rush needs as well. They could have addressed those positions this year and drafted a WR next year. I suspect that Poles wanted to appease Williams because of his football relationship with Odunze, and when he was available at 1.9 it was also a no-brainer for Poles. That doesn't make it a smart pick given the circumstances. Williams now has no excuse for not throwing for 4000 yards and 30+ TDs. I hope he can handle that pressure and not cry to mommy. I would add that from the brief interview with Rome that I saw he seems like he's pure class and is very smart. I'll be rooting for him big time.


On a 1 to 10 scale Poles is about a 6. People who love him only see the good stuff. What about giving up a 2nd rounder for Claypool? Nate Davis is no prize either. (And some of Poles' other FA O-lineman choices are pretty bad too.) He overpaid for Edmunds (but was right about Edwards). He drafted not one but two DTs that haven't shown too much and are not a great fit for Eberflus' defense. He only got a 6th rounder for Fields because he held out too long thinking the market was hot for that QB. He passed on C.J Stroud which calls into question his ability to evaluate QBs. He kept Eberflus; too early to tell about that decision. All-in-all I seem him as about average. The good news is that the Bears aren't Atlanta. WTF was that GM thinking...

[JustRalph]

The Atlanta pick is being universally called idiotic

After listening to some analysis, I think it was stupid

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

The Atlanta pick is being universally called idiotic

After listening to some analysis, I think it was stupid

I like Pennix, I think he has a chance to be a decent NFL QB. I have seen him make some amazing throws under duress. I did not read any of the negative press, I just saw a lot of his games. I think the only thing stupid was picking him at #8 in the first round. I think there was a good chance he would have been there at #11 in the second round.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by mostpost

Since I made the post above, a lot has changed. Including my opinion. After the Bears traded Fields away, I started looking more deeply into Caleb Williams, and was increasingly impressed. After hearing him speak over the last few days I am fully on board.

I’m also on board with Ryan Poles. Not only did he engineer the trade that got them the number one pick, but he also drafted Rome Odunze, an extremely talented wide receiver. He also signed DeAndre Smith and traded for Keenan Allen. And he has 11 picks in next year’s draft. Oh, did I mention a ton of cap space.

Seriously, what impressed you? How he can hit guys college open with 4 seconds to throw? How he often throws to his first read, occasionally to his second and never to his third?


After 3 years you won't even get a 6th rounder for him. I am calling bust, you heard it here first. That is my only skill evaluating players, picking bust QBs and predicting which one year NFL wonder will eventually fail, like Colin Kaepernick.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

I like Pennix, I think he has a chance to be a decent NFL QB. I have seen him make some amazing throws under duress. I did not read any of the negative press, I just saw a lot of his games. I think the only thing stupid was picking him at #8 in the first round. I think there was a good chance he would have been there at #11 in the second round.

I think Penix definitely has 1st round talent, although I have been curious about him wearing that big knee brace for so long after his knee injury. I think the issue with pick is that Atlanta was not a good fit. I think we should have been a better pick for Minnesota than McCarthy, or a few other places. It seems like all of the teams got a bit QB happy early in the 1st round.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Seriously, what impressed you? How he can hit guys college open with 4 seconds to throw? How he often throws to his first read, occasionally to his second and never to his third?


After 3 years you won't even get a 6th rounder for him. I am calling bust, you heard it here first. That is my only skill evaluating players, picking bust QBs and predicting which one year NFL wonder will eventually fail, like Colin Kaepernick.

I agree with you in that I don't think Williams is as blue chip as other 1st overall QB picks. GMs in that spot have to pick guys who check all of the boxes, and I guess they feel as though Williams does. I don't think he is particularly big, not is he as good an athlete as other QBs in the draft. I see him as being good, but not spectacular. The team that, in my opinion, got a bargain is Denver with Bo Nix. He did have a lot of wide open receivers and threw underneath crosses a lot in Oregon's offense, but I see him as a sort of "system guy" who should thrive under Sean Payton.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by headhawg

A lot of people are redboarding now about their love for Williams after supporting Fields. Caleb was the safe pick, practically a no-brainer. No one should doubt his talent but he's not without weaknesses: he fumbles too much; he tries to make hero throws on every down; he's soft after being coddled his entire football life. Of course I'll be rooting for him to be a success. However...

...the Odunze pick was flashy but not needed. There's only one football and the Bears already have 2 #1 receivers, a TE with very good hands (plus Everett), and an RB who is a threat in the passing game. The Bears aren't going to the Super Bowl, and being in the North, they probably won't make the playoffs. They have IOL needs and maybe need a better LT. They have pass rush needs as well. They could have addressed those positions this year and drafted a WR next year. I suspect that Poles wanted to appease Williams because of his football relationship with Odunze, and when he was available at 1.9 it was also a no-brainer for Poles. That doesn't make it a smart pick given the circumstances. Williams now has no excuse for not throwing for 4000 yards and 30+ TDs. I hope he can handle that pressure and not cry to mommy. I would add that from the brief interview with Rome that I saw he seems like he's pure class and is very smart. I'll be rooting for him big time.


On a 1 to 10 scale Poles is about a 6. People who love him only see the good stuff. What about giving up a 2nd rounder for Claypool? Nate Davis is no prize either. (And some of Poles' other FA O-lineman choices are pretty bad too.) He overpaid for Edmunds (but was right about Edwards). He drafted not one but two DTs that haven't shown too much and are not a great fit for Eberflus' defense. He only got a 6th rounder for Fields because he held out too long thinking the market was hot for that QB. He passed on C.J Stroud which calls into question his ability to evaluate QBs. He kept Eberflus; too early to tell about that decision. All-in-all I seem him as about average. The good news is that the Bears aren't Atlanta. WTF was that GM thinking...

You are definitely a very astute football fan!

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Bears positioned themselves and got exactly what they wanted.

1. Caleb Williams their obvious #1 QB on their board
2. One of "The Big 3" WRs available in the draft

That is a pretty big haul.

But what is never ever analyzed is the after the draft reality two to three years down the road.

Congrats to Bear's fans. I hope it works out.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

I agree with you in that I don't think Williams is as blue chip as other 1st overall QB picks. GMs in that spot have to pick guys who check all of the boxes, and I guess they feel as though Williams does. I don't think he is particularly big, not is he as good an athlete as other QBs in the draft. I see him as being good, but not spectacular. The team that, in my opinion, got a bargain is Denver with Bo Nix. He did have a lot of wide open receivers and threw underneath crosses a lot in Oregon's offense, but I see him as a sort of "system guy" who should thrive under Sean Payton.

What I want to know is where you find the highlight films of the highly touted QBs throwing under duress? All the highlight films show at best is a successful throw into a tight window which is made on a rollout or clean pocket. I often hear talking heads rave over prospects while showing film of constant throws to wide open first reads.


I cannot believe some of the high first round draft pick QBs that had glaring defects I think it was Rick Mirer who could only read half the field and struggled throwing to his left. Ryan Leaf was a lazy head case. I knew people who came from Washington who knew people who interacted with Ryan Leaf
and said he was the biggest arrogant A-hole they ever met and was a slacker that just got by on god given size and talent.


Both Mirer and Leaf were #2 overall picks. I am curious how well these guys were vetted? I guess someone how they fool people.



The reason why I am high on Pennix is the amazing throws he can make under duress.

[headhawg]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Seriously, what impressed you? How he can hit guys college open with 4 seconds to throw? How he often throws to his first read, occasionally to his second and never to his third?


After 3 years you won't even get a 6th rounder for him. I am calling bust, you heard it here first. That is my only skill evaluating players, picking bust QBs and predicting which one year NFL wonder will eventually fail, like Colin Kaepernick.

The results will speak for themselves, good or bad. But I can tear down each and every QB in this class as I can in every draft. You like Penix? The only reason he won't be on IR this season is because he won't play. It is 100% stupid to draft a player with known injuries. He's had four, count 'em...four injuries. That we know of. That makes him injury prone. He's also 24 and now will sit behind Cousins. Maybe Cousin's injury is worse than expected and Penix will play this year. It's an interesting story to follow. Ryan Pace is with Atlanta so I am not shocked at the bizarro pick. He's a QB evaluator guru dontcha know...

I see Nix as a guy...just a guy. A game manager. The system at Oregon didn't ask him to win games. Lot's of short throws and RPOs. He processes slow when going past his first read. He will struggle against good NFL defenses if his first read isn't open. He's a WIP, but I see him more as a Zach Wilson/Mac Jones type. He will be ok in the right system. I'm not a big believer in Payton. He had Drew Brees. Nix is NOT Brees. Funny how HCs are geniuses when they have an ace QB (see Bill Belichick).

But hey...Brock Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant and that worked out pretty well for SF. Anything can happen.